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Originally Posted by tbeard1999
No, that's not my goal. I think martial artists should be viable, but not as good as normal sword wielding fighters. I'd just like them to be more competitive, though inferior.
My analysis is simply that even with Steve's lowered costs, beginning martial artists with UC I-III are utterly outclassed by beginning armed fighters.
Primarily this is because their damage causing ability is no better than someone armed with a 2h club or dagger AND they have to expend 3 attribute points on IQ that the fighter doesn't have to. The requirement for very high DX also forces the player to push DX to a level that is arguably sub-optimal.
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I agree that the lower UC talents could be more accessible even that Steve's mentioned talking point. I think IQ 6 and low DX should be able to learn UC I (or some unarmed combat talent) - everyone can learn some martial arts and be more dangerous with their unarmed attacks, and low-DX people will still be lame martial artists just because they have low DX - no need to not let them have any martial arts ability at all.
In considering balance with UC skills, I think you should also take into account that UC people do best in HTH, where the tables are turned, and weapon-users can't use their weapons (except maybe a dagger). Adding the ability of UC to affect HTH initiation chances (I'd make it start with being harder (than it currently is) for someone without UC to initiate HTH), and also having HTH make it harder for people to use knives on you in HTH.
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Originally Posted by tbeard1999
UC IV doesn't change this fact; you need to compare a 34+ point martial artist with a 34+ point fighter and the fighter is every bit as dominant if not moreso (better DX allowing more armor). Armored enemies are tough on martial artists because their bare handed damage tops out at 1-1, or if they're lucky maybe 1d6.
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Yes, that's true but it seems to me should be true. UC shouldn't overpower weapons & armor, but offer different abilities. i.e. the UC person gets the zero-UC warrior with weapons & armor in HTH, denies their dagger use, and pins them or gets a dagger in an armor niche. Armed warriors then start to want some level of UC to deny HTH by UC gurus, which means they want to invest in some UC too, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeard1999
At UC V, the balance may shift some, but you'd need to compare a 35+ point martial artist with a 35+ point fighter.
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What do you think a 35-point character with UC V should be like?
If EP is only going to be spendable on attributes again, should it even be possible for someone with +3 attributes of experience to have the pinnacle-level of UC talents?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeard1999
The nerve strike seriously overpowers the martial artist (unless the required 3 points of damage has to happen after armor protection is subtracted AND the opponent is heavily armored).
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Yes.