[Skarg]

Originally Posted by tbeard1999

After thinking it through, I think that the reduction in talent point cost for unarmed combat talents is justified, and might not go far enough.

Consider this - one-handed swords add from +3 to +5.5 to a figure's barehanded damage (AM, p. 21). A dagger effectively adds +2 in regular combat.

UC I lets a figure do one point more damage, barehanded. I personally don't think that's even worth 1 talent point, since the Knife talent costs 1 point and will let you do +2 damage.

Um, so IF you are trying to create a game where it is a (nearly?) equally effective choice to fight with no equipment and use martial arts instead, then you might want to balance those sorts of numbers. If you're making a game to represent a kung fu film, that could make sense, and you might even want it to be better to be unequipped - oh wait, the armor restriction and abilities at UC IV and V do sort of do that, if anyone could reach those levels.

Is that what's wanted?

I would think it would make more sense to have it be more effective to use physical weapons and equipment than to not. Blackbelts rightly fear people with weapons, even knives. Weapons do damage for the reason they're sharp metal and they're also bigger and longer than hands and you don't get hurt when they get hit. If you balance them to be equal with UC talents, then you'll get what you aim for: a game where it's just as effective to use your hands as weapons (or moreso, as you can't detect when someone's armed & ready if their weapons are their hands, you can't disarm them, they don't need to buy or carry any gear, they don't make clanking sounds, etc).

Originally Posted by tbeard1999

UC II lets a barehanded ST 8 figure do the same damage as a ST 8 fighter with Knife talent and a dagger. A ST 11+ figure will do significantly less damage than a fighter with comparable ST armed with a sword. He can "throw" a foe by shield rushing him. However, any fighter with a shield can do that. Two talent points to get to this level of ability is overpriced in my opinion.

Overpriced only if you want UC to be as effective as being armed with sword & shield.

Originally Posted by tbeard1999

UC III lets a barehanded ST 9-10 figure do about as much damage as a sword armed fighter with the same ST. A ST11+ figure will do 1.5-2.5 less damage than his sword wielding counterpart. Allowing the figure to defend barehanded is also a pretty minimal benefit, since anyone with knife, sword, ax/mace or pole weapons can do that.

And since Defend is often not a useful move anyway. But again, why would your goal be to make unarmed combat as good as armed combat?

Originally Posted by tbeard1999

However, the ability to "throw" a foe and require him to roll 5/DX to avoid falling down is potentially VERY powerful. Effectively, he can neutralize any enemy with less than 2X his ST most of the time. In my opinion, UC III is worth one talent point, but I'm not sure about 2 talent points.

UC IV gives the "eyes behind" ability and makes the figure very hard to hit if defending. In my opinion, UC IV is worth one talent point, but I'm not sure about 2 talent points.

It seems to me that positional tactics is one of the main features of TFT, and removing most of the facing effects is an unfortunate kind of feature because it removes that. (Kind of like why I don't like simply removing all effects of Unready weapons with a Quick Draw talent - it makes game situations have fewer features to consider.) Having "I only have one side hex" be a 1-point talent that comes with other abilities and leads to UC V, seems undesirable to me.

Originally Posted by tbeard1999

UC V is the payoff ability. The figure is much harder to hit in combat (even moreso with the new limit on attribute increases). The nerve strike ability is very nasty; a ST 10 martial artist will do 3 points of damage 2/3 of the time. The figure is effectively impossible to hit if dodging or defending. This talent is definitely worth 3 talent points in my opinion.

Yes, as the only non-magical way to make yourself harder to hit without sacrificing your action, it's definitely worth (more than) 3 memory points, even if that were the only effect of it. One good thing about the original extreme path to UC V was that it made these very potent/unique abilities really hard to get. Reducing the costs of UC I - III may make sense for them, but having magic-like effects at IV and V be cheaper to get to as a consequence is a balance consideration (and again, then it depends on what balance you're aiming for - do you want balance aimed at "everybody knows kung fu fighting" or do you want it to be a rare difficult possibility?).

The drop-weapon effect is quite severe and seems wrong (every time you hit someone hard enough, you "hit a nerve" and they drop their weapon? I haven't even seen that in extreme kung fu films.) Though again, if the design goal is to get everyone doing kung fu, it also leads in that direction (and I have seen that in kung fu films).

Of course, this is another place where memory points and attribute caps make a big difference. Memory point limits mean large talent investment leaves little room for other things unless you have high IQ, and attribute caps (or a steep EP curve) means taking high IQ means less ST + DX.