[ericthered]

Originally Posted by Plane

MA136 says you can ignore it for HTx2 seconds (a little simplistic IMO, you'd think Willpower would factor in somehow, or perhaps certain skills) so initially with HT 12 we were counting down from 24 seconds.

Quite. I can see the benefits of keeping it simplistic, but a system that uses a will-based boxing skill seems equally valid.

It occurs to me however, that due to the -1 penalty to HT based on lost FP, that my ability to ignore it should be reduced to 22 seconds since HT11*2=22

For that reason, in the future I would say that rather than counting down ("seconds remaining until penalties") it would be better to count up from 0 ("seconds passed") so you can more easily tell when you reach a HTx2 threshold.

I find it more interesting for that to remain "current HT" rather than "HT at time of injury". So conversely, for example, if 30 seconds had passed and I'm suffering the penalties (because I have less than HT 15) but then I put on some magic amulet which gives me +10 to HT and suddenly I have HT 22 and the ability to ignore it for 44 seconds, then the penalties would suddenly vanish (even though I had already started being subjected to them) for the next 14 seconds.

Exhaustion makes you less able to ignore injury? That doesn't sound infeasible. We can count up.

In fact, because your 22 second AODD (which I wrongly presumed, but you agreed with confirming) ended BEFORE I did my grapple attempt, that should have been taken into account prior to my choice.

We can keep it. Its fine.

I should upgrade from tier 2 to tier 3 penalties on my left leg after 7 more seconds, possibly less if I lose enough FP to lose another point of effective HT.

Or if I manage to kick out your leg before that!

House rule I think reasonable: even though it only specifies "kicking", I believe it would make sense to apply these DX penalties to ANYTHING done with the leg, including:

*kneeing
*stomping
*trampling
*leg parries/jams
*grappling using the legs
*break free using the legs
*roll with blow against attacks targeting the leg
*avoiding obstacles during a move
*if we were to actually involve some kind of DX roll involved in stepping in general as a house rule
*jumping
*running
*hiking
*any other ideas?

*Acrobatics

Yep, its a good idea.

We are only 1 yard apart (I used my free step to enter close combat to grapple you, since I don't think grappling using your legs is allowed at reach 1 like a kick) since you retreated.

Acknowledged.

The only value I might see in tracking that is if we were dealing with a buff system like if magical spells were able to cause a reduction in your total HP (some kind of Affliction: Attribute Penalty) like for example if you were reduced to a total of HP 8 then 4 would be more than 1/3 and counting from that moment WOULD matter... or maybe not? Perhaps you should only count when you drop below that level, which would begin counting from when the total HP was adjusted, not the injury.

That is a really weird edge case. I'd probably suggest counting from the drop, not the injury, just to keep tracking easier.

I'm not initially sure whether to interpret "any roll to avoid falling is at -3" to apply to ALL situations (kicking or otherwise, like trying to maintain balance due to knockback) or just when kicking with the good leg

I notice there is no penalty listed to avoid falling on the next tier, just "cannot kick with the good leg from a standing posture – your wounded leg won’t support your weight" which implies the above approach could be wrong and that it may only be intended for kicking with the good leg.

your thoughts on that?

Given that kicks with the bad leg are done at -5 to DX, and in the previous tier the DX penalty to avoid falling was equivalent, I'm up to house-ruling that you are -5 to avoid falls once subject to tier 3 penalties (in general, when on both legs) but that falling is automatic when trying to support yourself on the bad leg, at the very least when throwing a kick.

I think grappling with a leg would take at least as long as a kick so it should apply there too (automatic fall) but I'm not sure about kneeing/stomping/trampling/leg parrying since those may not involve trying to support yourself on the leg for a prolonged period of time like kicking does. I think in those cases just doing a -5 to DX to avoid falls would be fine.

I think you SHOULD be able to kick with your good leg if you are suffering a tier 3 injury, but ala "The Karate Kid" it's a suicidal Crane-style kick where you are automatically falling as soon as you do it, and would require a "Break Fall" to land successfully in a crouch (ie how Karate Kid managed to jump off his good leg, kick with it, and then land without falling in a stumble on both legs) otherwise you fall and take damage as normal, and the breakfall should suffer the -5 to DX penalty.

Alternatively: since the 'wounded leg won't support' is only explicitly about Kicking (ie that technique) to emulate the 'Crane Kick', I guess you could consider that a 1-legged Drop Kick and use Slam-like damage calculations.

It does feel like the rules are intended to cover falling as a result of kicking. I'd totally allow a PC who was trying to knock over someone with an injured leg a bonus to doing so. The "Do anything with the leg" clause could easily include avoiding a fall.

My moves are coming in a second post.