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Old 05-09-2017, 11:23 AM   #40
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: High Amounts of non penetrating damage. Bullets VS Plate Carriers

Quote:
Originally Posted by weby View Post
But if one uses your proposed model where just failing to penetrate causes 1 point.
An easy solution here is to base the "just failed to penetrate" off of basic damage, without armor divisors in play. An armor piercing round that fails to penetrate does nothing, even if it were only a point shy, while a normal round that just fails does 1 point of injury. Now you'll never have the issue of a lighter armor piercing round causing more deformation than a heavier round.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomsdad View Post
EDIT: sorry just looking again at the second second section of this, I'm no sure what you mean when linking MinST to Knock back? And I'm not sure a 10g bullet travelling 830m/s will knock back a human sized target (in lots of armour) a yard if it collides but doesn't penetrate. But then knock back in GURPS is a lot of different things.
For the first, that was in reference to the action/reaction bit - that is, if a bullet can push a person back a yard then firing it should push that same person back a yard as well. As Knockback Threshold is based on HP, and HP is based on ST, it makes some sense to assume the typical wielder of a weapon will have HP equal to or exceeding MinST, which will give us the amount of Knockback the character would suffer from firing the weapon without properly bracing himself for the recoil (there are no rules for adjusting Knockback when there is bracing involved, but it would make sense to reduce Knockback in such cases). To my knowledge, there aren't any firearms that the Knockback calculated using my proposed houserule would be enough to knock the firer back a yard or more (there's a musket in HT that comes dangerously close - 4d+1 pi++ and ST10 - but none that actually reach this point). Bows and crossbows might be a different story, but that's an issue with the unrealistic ST-based damage table.

For the latter, I calculated the impact damage using the Collisions rules from Tbone's GULLIVER rules, which are designed to be more realistic than the default GURPS rules. I only calculated it for three projectiles, however - the 5.56x45mm, 7.62x39mm, and .50 BMG - and extrapolated from there, so the actual crushing damage of other bullets may not be as suggested in my houserule. Unrealistic Knockback results may be more an issue with the Knockback rules than with the crushing component of bullets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellboy View Post
B378's Knockback rules could benefit from some expansion.
Post #4 of my previously linked thread does a lot of this, by essentially giving every attack a crushing component (which would have Knockback associated). Having attacks that are partially blocked only have Knockback from the portion of the damage that is blocked is a logical addition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomsdad View Post
Somethings also need to be adjusted on an individual basis (a v.fine cutting sword that gets +2 damage for being extra sharp etc, shouldn't be better at knocking people back if it fail to get past DR)
Again, the previously-linked thread has this effect built-in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomsdad View Post
*Equally I see no reason why swung imp attacks risk getting stuck, but thrust imp ones don't. I'd prefer to make it function of Imp damage in some way, as I also don't see why a 2 point Swung Imp injury is as prone to get stuck as a 12 point one (just as I don't see what 2 point swung Imp wound risks getting stuck, but a 12 point thrust imp wound doesn't)
With a swinging attack you have a bit of build-up of momentum during the swing, which you don't have for pulling it back out, so it's harder to pull back out than it was to initially put in. This isn't the case with thrusting. That's the idea, anyway - in reality it's certainly possible to get a thrust impaling weapon stuck so that it takes a moment to pull out, but (outside of barbed weapons) this is treated as below GURPS resolution.
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