Steve Jackson Games Forums - View Single Post - How will my ability activate during a follow-up attack?

Plane · 01-17-2019, 07:37 AM

In regard to the cost on melee attacks, something I found a little confusing...

Powers 40 "Those borne on fangs, claws, etc. have Follow-Up (+0%)"
Powers 55 "Poison on Claws, Teeth, etc. should cause fatigue or toxic damage
unless it’s very unusual. Such attacks always have Follow-Up (+0%)."
Powers 144 "Follow-Up, Teeth/Striker, +0%;" + "Follow-Up, Teeth or Striker,
+0%;" + "Spines, -50%;"

Mental Blow (P143) and Pyrokinetic Attack (P144) and Telekinetic Squeeze (P144) are good examples of how stuff like "Costs Fatigue" and "No Signature" and "Variable" on the carrier don't affect the cost of the Follow-up, only the Malediction.

Tranquilizer Dart (P145) is a good example of how Increased 1/2D (as part of Increased Range) is passed from carrier to followup, but Accurate and Armor Divisor are not

Page 146 of Powers says "Melee Attack, Variable, and Visible, which are already built into unarmed damage". Now I know Variable/Visible don't pass from carrier to followup ... but shouldn't melee attack?

The way it's written, something like Crushing Attack 0.25 (Melee Attack -30% ST-based +100%) [4] + Toxic Attack 1 (Followup, Crushing Attack -30%) [4] should be legal...

My guess is that when you define an Innate Attack (Melee Attack) it is a singular weapon wielded by a single body part (thus Melee Attack (Dual) on P103) whereas the +0% for "Teeth or Striker" is more expensive than -30% because it applies to both? Or the freedom for all 3 (Claws/Strikers/Teeth) classes? I can understand paying more when a Followup is interchangeable with multiple carriers. I don't know if there's any other way to set that up.

A "Striker" is limited to a single body part just like Innate Attack (Melee Attack) but it's actually got HP that can be targeted, while an Innate Attack does not unless you take Gadget limitations.

Spines doesn't just attack people who attack you, you can get a free attack 1/second against anyone you're in close combat with. Despite it saying you can't attack actively with them, intentionally getting into close combat sort of gives that effect... My guess at why something so useful is only worth -50% is because the most basic damage you can ever do from this advantage is 6, so it falls behind Claws/Strikers/Teeth and ST-based Innate Attacks at high ST levels, or behind high-level Innate Attacks in general.

I wondered if the roll to hit being DX-4 might also have something to do with it, although if you have an "Inaccurate" Innate Attack or "Clumsy" Striker as a carrier it might have something to do with it.

To design something equal or better to "Short Spines" would be a 4 impaling or 6 impaling to match the automatically maximum slam damage. Free attacks against anyone in close combat is better than aura which requires actual contact. You'd need Melee Attack -30% Aura +80% Area Effect +25% to cover it, but you can't take "Inaccurate" on Melee-type Innate Attacks so I'm not sure how to cover the -2 to hit additional -2 to hit those on front/sides (reverse concept of -4 to hit, +2 to hit those in rear)

01-17-2019, 07:37 AM	#3
Plane Join Date: Aug 2018	Re: How will my ability activate during a follow-up attack? In regard to the cost on melee attacks, something I found a little confusing... Powers 40 "Those borne on fangs, claws, etc. have Follow-Up (+0%)" Powers 55 "Poison on Claws, Teeth, etc. should cause fatigue or toxic damage unless it’s very unusual. Such attacks always have Follow-Up (+0%)." Powers 144 "Follow-Up, Teeth/Striker, +0%;" + "Follow-Up, Teeth or Striker, +0%;" + "Spines, -50%;" Mental Blow (P143) and Pyrokinetic Attack (P144) and Telekinetic Squeeze (P144) are good examples of how stuff like "Costs Fatigue" and "No Signature" and "Variable" on the carrier don't affect the cost of the Follow-up, only the Malediction. Tranquilizer Dart (P145) is a good example of how Increased 1/2D (as part of Increased Range) is passed from carrier to followup, but Accurate and Armor Divisor are not Page 146 of Powers says "Melee Attack, Variable, and Visible, which are already built into unarmed damage". Now I know Variable/Visible don't pass from carrier to followup ... but shouldn't melee attack? The way it's written, something like Crushing Attack 0.25 (Melee Attack -30% ST-based +100%) [4] + Toxic Attack 1 (Followup, Crushing Attack -30%) [4] should be legal... My guess is that when you define an Innate Attack (Melee Attack) it is a singular weapon wielded by a single body part (thus Melee Attack (Dual) on P103) whereas the +0% for "Teeth or Striker" is more expensive than -30% because it applies to both? Or the freedom for all 3 (Claws/Strikers/Teeth) classes? I can understand paying more when a Followup is interchangeable with multiple carriers. I don't know if there's any other way to set that up. A "Striker" is limited to a single body part just like Innate Attack (Melee Attack) but it's actually got HP that can be targeted, while an Innate Attack does not unless you take Gadget limitations. Spines doesn't just attack people who attack you, you can get a free attack 1/second against anyone you're in close combat with. Despite it saying you can't attack actively with them, intentionally getting into close combat sort of gives that effect... My guess at why something so useful is only worth -50% is because the most basic damage you can ever do from this advantage is 6, so it falls behind Claws/Strikers/Teeth and ST-based Innate Attacks at high ST levels, or behind high-level Innate Attacks in general. I wondered if the roll to hit being DX-4 might also have something to do with it, although if you have an "Inaccurate" Innate Attack or "Clumsy" Striker as a carrier it might have something to do with it. To design something equal or better to "Short Spines" would be a 4 impaling or 6 impaling to match the automatically maximum slam damage. Free attacks against anyone in close combat is better than aura which requires actual contact. You'd need Melee Attack -30% Aura +80% Area Effect +25% to cover it, but you can't take "Inaccurate" on Melee-type Innate Attacks so I'm not sure how to cover the -2 to hit additional -2 to hit those on front/sides (reverse concept of -4 to hit, +2 to hit those in rear)