[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Otaku

I made that comment in response to you bringing up how investing more CP in techniques allows you to invest more in Style Perks. Thus, when the cap isn't in effect, or Style Perks aren't being used at all, this benefit of investing in Techniques doesn't apply. I don't know how often people do or do not use these rules, but Techniques are in [Basic] while these advanced rules are not; it seems at least plausible that Techniques see more use without those advanced rules than not.

In which case that particular thing doesn't apply. I was pointing out something that, while minor, is often overlooked in this discussion. It isn't really critical.

...and if you are just using [Basic], this still doesn't apply. If one isn't using the right supplemental books, it doesn't apply. I get it; there is at least a partial answer to the problems AlexanderHowl has with Techniques and their costs. I just wanted to make it clear that some of us (such as myself) can't make use of that solution. If I did so poorly or it was unneeded, my apologies.

In which case you could, I suppose, at most take six techniques for Judo or Wrestling (Arm-Lock, Choke Hold, Disarming, Feint, Finger-Lock, and Ground Fighting) and less for any other skill from the limited selection available. I think there are two things to note about that:
a) There's no rule that says you have to make an optimized character. If wasting points does bother you, well then don't do this.
b) You've spent points on individually improving almost every aspect of grappling available in the Basic Set except the core tasks of grappling, takedowns and throws. What does this actually represent? You somehow trained very specifically in all of these Judo or Wrestling moves without learning how to do the core tasks better at the same time?

So far, no one has said they wanted "dozens of techniques" to be cost-efficient.

I often see new players trying to put a point in every technique in a style, (or in 50+ skills) because they want points in everything they think their character might ever attempt. I would much rather see characters with a few high levels of skills and the willingness to accept default rolls every once in a while (and in exchange I promise to use positive TDMs on tasks that shouldn't be that difficult).

Right now, anything more than three Average Techniques or one Hard Technique and an Average Technique for one Skill are where it stops being cost in-efficient to purchase Techniques for a single Skill. Not terrible, but then one needs to remember that Kicking is a Hard Technique, so if you're dealing with Brawling or Karate, that eats up a lot of your "slots" for Techniques. This just seems to create a binary choice; total generalist or total specialist, because anything in between isn't cost-efficient.

So you are a Muy Thai fighter, and you've trained up your Karate skill and really focused on Counterattack and Spinning Kick. That doesn't look like a specialist to me, that looks like a kickboxer. As trooper6 points out you can really take advantage of Spinning Kick Counterattacks, so maybe you take Trademark Move for that. You can still use, and have drilled extensively, in Knee Strikes and Push Kicks and all the rest.

If instead you ignored the advice to focus on only a couple of techniques and put points in
Counterattack (Karate); Elbow Strike; Jam; Kicking; Knee Strike; Leg Grapple (DX); Push Kick; Spinning Kick; Spinning Punch; Sweep (Karate); Targeted Attack (Karate Kick/Leg and Uppercut, at low levels do you really look more like a generalist than the guy who just has 12 points in Karate more than you? His defaults in many of these are going to as good, or nearly as good as yours, and he is much better at punching and parrying then you are. So which character is a better general kickboxer?

Note that Counterattack in particular is actually a waste of points in this case, because it is a technique that is mostly only worth it if you max it out.

I guess I'm saying... if your players are wanting a more detailed game, even if 4e ha abandoned such a sheet, you might want to bring it back. Looks scarier, but makes things easier in the long run. Like creating a separate "Grimoire" sheet for a Mage, listing out his Spells and any relevant notes from them, instead of trying to cram them all into the "Skills" section. :)

I actually encourage stylists to list every technique in their styles, but only to improve one or two of them. It makes playing a stylist much easier to have the reminder there.

Originally Posted by Otaku

I brought up what I believed to be the 3e intentions for Techniques because I read your earlier assertion that Techniques were about reducing character sheet clutter as being universal, not just for your group.

I never said that was the intent, I don't know what the intent is. I am saying the result is preferable to a messy cluttered sheet with lots of 1 point traits or whatever.

While the rules for buying Skills aren't much different, the rules for buying Martial Arts
So... it didn't really matter if it wasn't cost effective, you had to buy the Techniques to actually have the style.

Ah yes, it seems it was I who had forgotten.

Well I am glad that changed because it doesn't really make much sense. You can't logically train up all the parts of a thing individually without having actually just trained in the thing as a whole.

Some of us are fond of fiction that are not realistic and where fighters, especially those of note, are going to have at least a few developed Techniques.

So to reiterate what I said earlier:
a) There's no rule that says you can't "waste" points if you want to (or feel you need to).
b) How can you tell the difference between a fictional fighter who has mastered many techniques of a style by mastering their style, and a fictional fighter who has mastered a style by mastering all its techniques? Or to put it a different way, can you give an example of the sort of fighter you are thinking of that would need to be represented in GURPS by putting points in a bunch of techniques of a skill rather than in the skill itself?