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Old 11-07-2014, 05:26 AM   #36
Tomsdad
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
Default Re: Balancing High Size Modifier

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sindri View Post
Resources is a rather broad term and many games include resource management in one arena but not others. CP are resources but never really become fully flush without fundamental game alterations. Monetary cost is very often a meaningless variable except under unusual circumstances. Weight can be normally meaningless like that but it's common for money to be practically unlimited but encumbrance to remain at best only slightly improved for worn items and low tech characters can use up huge amounts of encumbrance on armour. If Sword and Sorcery here means a dominant strategy of loin cloths then encumbrance is indeed a niche utility but if there aren't any factors pushing absolutely no armour that the PCs could easily end up wearing armour at least as commonly as literary Conan..
Sorry yes I was meaning resources in a more narrow term i.e money (and that SM+1 armour cost more and is presumably harder to obtain as well).

And while I agree Conan often wore armour, we never really see him paying for it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sindri View Post
The "typical" advantages (and I don't think they are as typical as people assume. Thin and not particularly strong SM +1 elflike races aren't uncommon) cost points in their own right and only one of them is mildly discounted.
I think you and I might adjudicate what's SM+1 differently, I tend to assume that it's overall build not just height. I.e for me a 7' 150lb elf would not be SM+1, but a 6' 9" 450lb man might well be.

You say only one advantage that is discounted but it's an advantage that gives more than one benefit extra ST allows me to hit harder, carry more and with stand more damage. Moreover it's one that has a synergistic relationship with the benefits given by SM+1 (reach and grappling)

More esoterically a stat normaliser like myself might be more accepting of increases to ST given a SM+1. (that's not a general point though)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sindri View Post
I wouldn't actually imagine the typical advantages of SM +1 characters as including additional ability to pay upkeep costs either (are barbarians all rich? Actually an interesting idea now that I think about it)
Assuming big and strong characters tend to leverage money by being big and strong, I'd suggest that the bigger and stronger they are the more money they will leverage



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sindri View Post
First of all the rules have to function in the case of a ST 10 giant instead of flipping out and giving up.
Only as much as they do for a ST7 human.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sindri View Post
Second, if a character is disadvantaged the same as another but is getting less points a problem exists even if both are getting some compensation.
Only they are getting more points because they haven't spent them on ST?

A ST15 SM+1 costs 45 points more than ST10 SM+1, they will have more difficulty wearing armour that fits them since their BL will be 20lbs not 45lbs, but they have those extra points as compensation.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sindri View Post
Finally this thread isn't people who took out the ST limitation from SM and are now finding it unbalanced. Remember an SM +1 character with 20 ST is getting only 10 points back.
Which means that SM+1 has effectively become a 10 point disadvantage for that character, even while giving him bonus in grappling while hitting him for the negatives as well etc. (Albeit one that requires a 90pt buy in)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sindri View Post
Positive SM does not work. If you are going to balance it anyway you just might as well replace the dubious preexisting balance measures.
Well that's what we're discussing, not a established fact.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sindri View Post
That could work out rather awkwardly. Mass in gurps is supposed to be a zero point feature and the system is built around that. As it stands everyone could choose whatever SM and just state that they weigh a pound.
At some point common sense has to kick in though? The question about mass being a zero point feature is ultimately the same about SM being one. It's rather dependent on the usual side effects of being different masses (same as different SMs)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sindri View Post
You can certainly build a working system around scaling armour weight by character size (being made of lead shouldn't make your armour weigh more) and there are significant advantages in doing so but it has serious downsides that need to be overcome.

Not sure what you mean here there is already a system for adjusting armour weight by character weight, and it has nothing to do with lead armour not weighing more?

What are the disadvantages you mention.

Last edited by Tomsdad; 11-07-2014 at 05:44 AM.
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