Steve Jackson Games Forums - View Single Post - Weapon Mastery, the long and winding road

Nils_Lindeberg · 05-22-2019, 02:45 PM

Thanks for the answer Lars. You didn't owe me an explanation in any way, but I am grateful I got your reasoning. :-)

I guess the main issue is with the discrepancy of a set cost for talents at 500 and attributes that have an exponential cost. 500 at character creation and the early game is a huge deal, but later on its value is balanced by attribute cost, and in the late game it is the only realistic choice for heroes to improve.

Even in the old rules, where an (IQ point + 1 talent) was considered equal to DX and ST, there was a considerable advantage to starting with a high IQ, since you could have more of the advanced talents. Starting at IQ 14 instead of 11 gave you 3 more talents, but also access to many more, instead of taking somewhat sub-par or second choice ones at IQ 11 and below. But maybe that inducement wasn't enough to make people go for the starting high IQ heroes.

There was a problem for the guy that wanted an IQ 11 2p talent, but started at IQ 10, he had to raise his IQ to 12 unless he saved up a talent point, then +1 IQ would be enough. Being able to save talent points, or put them into a study talent that kicks in once the prereqs. are met would be one way of getting around some of the problems I see.

Another reason for the 12/12/8-char was the XP gain. The better you were at killing stuff, the faster you would get XP. IQ didn't give much bonus in that department. But now we have a flat XP gain, as long as you survive, you should get more or less as much as the others.

Do we really need more inducements to start with a higher IQ character?

It is a valid argument, and there is a problem with the starting number of talents. I would argue though, that ST and DX still are as valuable as (IQ + 1 talent). So either disconnect them completely and make starting talents non-dependent on starting IQ, or keep them dependent on each other even after character start, with the option of buying extra later on if you want to (that cost could be 500 or anything, because sooner or later it would be worth it anyways with the IQ becoming exponentially more expensive).

A tricky system, and I am not happy with it in its current state. I am starting a campaign soon and it would be nice to have it down on paper from the start since it might matter a lot.

05-22-2019, 02:45 PM	#26
Nils_Lindeberg Join Date: Jul 2018	Re: Weapon Mastery, the long and winding road Thanks for the answer Lars. You didn't owe me an explanation in any way, but I am grateful I got your reasoning. :-) I guess the main issue is with the discrepancy of a set cost for talents at 500 and attributes that have an exponential cost. 500 at character creation and the early game is a huge deal, but later on its value is balanced by attribute cost, and in the late game it is the only realistic choice for heroes to improve. Even in the old rules, where an (IQ point + 1 talent) was considered equal to DX and ST, there was a considerable advantage to starting with a high IQ, since you could have more of the advanced talents. Starting at IQ 14 instead of 11 gave you 3 more talents, but also access to many more, instead of taking somewhat sub-par or second choice ones at IQ 11 and below. But maybe that inducement wasn't enough to make people go for the starting high IQ heroes. There was a problem for the guy that wanted an IQ 11 2p talent, but started at IQ 10, he had to raise his IQ to 12 unless he saved up a talent point, then +1 IQ would be enough. Being able to save talent points, or put them into a study talent that kicks in once the prereqs. are met would be one way of getting around some of the problems I see. Another reason for the 12/12/8-char was the XP gain. The better you were at killing stuff, the faster you would get XP. IQ didn't give much bonus in that department. But now we have a flat XP gain, as long as you survive, you should get more or less as much as the others. Do we really need more inducements to start with a higher IQ character? It is a valid argument, and there is a problem with the starting number of talents. I would argue though, that ST and DX still are as valuable as (IQ + 1 talent). So either disconnect them completely and make starting talents non-dependent on starting IQ, or keep them dependent on each other even after character start, with the option of buying extra later on if you want to (that cost could be 500 or anything, because sooner or later it would be worth it anyways with the IQ becoming exponentially more expensive). A tricky system, and I am not happy with it in its current state. I am starting a campaign soon and it would be nice to have it down on paper from the start since it might matter a lot.