[ericthered]

Originally Posted by Plane

if you dodge then I think it's implied that I evade automatically for free.

I agree.

Not sure about missing.. undodged missed slams getting automatic evasion sounds off.

I'd think that I could either impede your progress by spending an AP to resist without taking slam damage or let you through.

If you parry though, I dunno maybe if a parry is successful it should be the defender's option whether they stop the guy face-on (take semi-slam -2 defensiveish damage) or deflect him (give slammer a free evade and they go stumbling past as if it was a dodge) ?

By RAW, red would stop green without either taking damage... and green would have to be a lot bigger than red to invoke the weight rules successfully.

Then if I somehow hit without a defense working: Grappling does have an automatic move-reduction mechanic for that...

oh cool.

Actually that might be one way to reduce the damage: you roll your damage against me FIRST, then I subtract move resulting from that, and THEN roll damage against you by my now-reduced velocity. We could still add the defensive attack penalty, but this serves my desire of wanting something LESS damaging than a defensive attack.

that could work...

I just thought of another way to think of parries as well, compare to basic set's weird hard cap "you can only parry attacks weighing X, and punches weigh ST/10" ...

What if a parry is conceived like an impermanent grapple in that you roll thrust to determine control points, and then you apply those control points to JUST the attack you intercepted?

That way it reduces the DX (which you can apply to see if that would've caused it to miss) and even if you don't cause it to miss, it also reduces the ST, so you would reduce the damage the attack does.

I'd have parries use twice ST for calculating thrust (like a shove) with a +1 for 2-armed parries (like shoves) to make it super good at depleting ST/DX of attacks though, since they don't have time to build up CP like grapples do. If using a "grapples are twice as good" rule system then it could use 4x ST.

I agree that the parry rules are odd with regards to weight, especially for natural weapons. I'm not excited to break out technical grappling for it. I've been thinking about the parry weights rule for a while now and I've been thinking that the best way to model it might be penalties for large relative strengths (or actually basic lifts), modified by the "weight" of your weapon... but that's a different kettle of fish.

Now... if I don't slam you and instead try to punch you... would hitting you help slow me down? You dodging the punch wouldn't cause me to run past you like with a dodged slam, nor should being parries, but I'm thinking that it should count like a random attack in that case.

I don't think a punch should effect green's speed. I could see the AP from the attack providing half of the benefit of spending a full AP for move, rounded down.

If I roll 9 or less, I'm going to accidentally collide with you (you can dodge at +2)

If I roll 10 or more, I'm going to miss you... in which case I think it's like a free evade without needing to spend an Action Point...

BUT: in that case, I should only be able to evade to your left hex or right hex (veering to one side or the other) and definitely not directly behind you, since this is accidental evasion not intentional evasion.

As to which... one way might be to base this on which side the punch was being aimed at? Like if I'm punching left arm, then I would veer to your left (my right) and if I'm punching your right arm, then I would veer to your right (my left).

Another possibility: which limb you use to parry might determine it. If I was accidental-slamming your torso then perhaps if you parry right-handed I should veer off to your left side, and if you parry left-handed I should veer off to your right side?

That's assuming that parries involve the use of the stronger chest muscles to push someone inward/across to the opposite side... there are also outward parries though, but I think those use weaker muscles and are more for deflecting light objects, not entire bodies...

I think I'd fall back on our discussion of what happens if green just runs into red's hex. I don't think adding a punch changes anything meaningfully.

As there's no actually intentional use of the Evade technique, instead of a Quick Contest, I think maybe we'd just roll a dodge, which I think is what you would do if someone had shoved your enemy into you. That's basically what's happening here, except that it was their own momentum shoving them.

Dodging the momentum-carried accidental slam is also something that could come up if we determined some kind of minimum requirement of actually making a guy veer left/right, like maybe related to knockback rules or depleting the ST of the incoming attack to 0.

Who would roll dodge? both of them? And resisting an (implied) evade attempt feels like the opposite of dodge.

You know the weird thing is that I could so easily dodge while carrying a 3y/s momentun like that... B366 doesn't list any penalties to dodging AT ALL, except for an inability to retreat. You just can't parry... Martial Arts amended that to be that you can't parry if you attacked with your arms, otherwise you can't dodge if you did any other attack. Either way, Move and Attack leaves one form of completely unimpeded (except for non-retreat) defense, which is really strange!

One thing that comes to mind... if you dodge during a Move or a Move and Attack, perhaps the AP spent on dodging should be forced as counting towards deceleration?

Dodging while running does feel natural. Counting dodge AP towards deceleration... isn't a bad idea. I'd prefer it apply between 1 y/s and Move/2 yard per second at the dodger's option. It is an after-the fact hack though, and I'd prefer to make it apply from after this situation onward, because other-wise you're adjusting rules to assist yourself on the fly.


[/quote]So based on that... how much should I reduce my 3y/s velocity as if I spent 1 AP to do so?[/QUOTE]

1 AP would allow the full 3 yards to be decelerated, as its move/2