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Old 01-14-2011, 09:13 AM   #41
Frosty
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
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Default Re: Is there a reason why there is no table for submachine guns in GURPS Lite 4e?

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Originally Posted by Mailanka View Post
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Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
But information on how to deal with situations concerning certain content is missing and, to me, that makes them junk.
Then I'm afraid GURPS Lite is not the product for you.
I would hardly call it a product.

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
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Originally Posted by Frosty View Post
Then what game am I supposed to run with it?
Seriously? How many genres absolutely need SMGs? WWII or early Cold War Spec Ops? Don't run uber-detailed gun-bunny games with GURPS Lite. You can still run lots and lots of games, basically anything that doesn't require modern milspec hardware or supernatural powers. Historical Low Fantasy, Police Procedurals, Tea Cozies, Wilderness Survival, most Horror, most (non-mil, not Space Opera) SF.
My RP isn't uber-detailed, but it would be nice to have the stats for a submachine gun available. It saves me pulling numbers out of my ass that look like fudge but don't taste (or smell) as good. If GURPS Lite Fourth Edition can provide the stats for a pump-action shotgun and a 9mm semi-automatic pistol, why can't they provide the stats for a submachine gun?

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
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So why is it still there?
No idea, I guess they didn't consider it errata. You can always fudge something. It's no worse than a lot of rules light free systems in that.
I don't feel like repeating myself. You can go back over my old replies for a detailed explanation, or look above for a simple (but less tasteful) version.

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
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I couldn't agree more, sir_pudding
Then what's the issue exactly? If it didn't have sufficient detail in the traits, then it wouldn't be as useful to a player in a "full" GURPS game, would it?
Actually, I felt that there was sufficient detail in the traits, just not how and when to apply them. GURPS Lite Fourth Edition works as a resource for players because they're not pulling the strings behind the curtain.

I believe that if one of my players reads GURPS Lite Fourth Edition and decides that they want their character to be a surgeon, they should have the right to make their character a surgeon so long as they pick appropriate advantages, disadvantages, skills, et cetera and provide a decent backstory. Their character shouldn't be made useless because I don't know how to apply their skills in a situation because the manual doesn't specify, because the skills aren't even meant to be in the manual in the first place.

Dig?

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
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If it is possible to see GURPS Lite in action without the (missing) rules and mechanics of how to mediate and determine the consequences of situations, then please do explain how.
Don't run early 20th gun-bunny games.
My hands are tied.

However, that's not your problem and I'm not making it yours.

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
You should try to emulate some Agatha Christie, Arthur Conan Doyle, John London, John Grisham, Issac Asimov, or like 90% of the fiction ever written, that doesn't feature SMGs.
GURPS is a foreign concept to my regular players and it is an extraterrestrial concept to players who aren't regular.

I feel that the familiarity of a world grounded in reality as we know it now is the best way to ease them in, rather than shoving them straight into the deep-end, cold turkey.

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
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Except that you have to resort to third-party content and fan resources to make parts of the game work.
No you don't. You need to buy the full product if you want to use all of its features. This isn't any different from demonstration versions of most things in the world.
I want a system that works. I don't want to read GURPS Lite and find "REFER TO SOMETHING ELSE OTHER THAN THIS" written under every other entry of advantages, disadvantages, skills, et cetera.

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
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But information on how to deal with situations concerning certain content is missing and, to me, that makes them junk.
I thought you agreed that that content is useful to GURPS player that doesn't own the Basic Set.
I do.

But I'm not playing. I'm a GM and I'm trying to create a fun, playable adventure.

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
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I don't like fudging numbers, especially considering that I have a limited understand of GURPS (and much less of what goes on behind the curtain). I resort to third-party sources and fan projects, and find the most common denominators.
If you are going to run a demonstration game, don't try to break the system.
The system is already broken.

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
To go back to your car analogy, you wouldn't try to test drive a car on the beach, in the rain, at 180mph, would you? Don't try to run Uber-Psionic-Gun-Bunnies-with-Magic-and-Kung Fu with GURPS Lite. It's a demo, run something simple, that covers the basic mechanics of the system (character creation, skill rolls and damage).
If the manual of the car mentions "can be driven on the beach, in the rain, at 180 mph", then why wouldn't I want to test it?

I'm not trying to run a "Uber-Psionic-Gun-Bunnies-with-Magic-and-Kung Fu" adventure, I'm trying to run a fun, playable adventure.

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
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What irritates me is that they didn't take out the content that had no resources to back it up.
Again, if they did it would be less useful to somebody who is playing in a game that uses the full rules.
But GURPS Lite and standard GURPS don't even use the same mechanics, so, tell me, what the hell is the point?

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Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
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How am I supposed to tell a player that they shouldn't take the Missile Weapon (Submachine Gun) skill because the game doesn't provide weapon stats for a submachine gun
"Why would a Caveman/Edwardian Schoolmarm/Hard-boiled Detective/Xeno-Biologist need a submachine gun, Larry?"
The question is "When?", not "Why?"

It also applies to everything else mentioned by Mailanka.

More replies coming.
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