Steve Jackson Games Forums - View Single Post - Another idea for the old skill VS Attribute conundrum

PseudoFenton · 05-15-2014, 12:41 PM

Okay - I typed out a lot of logical assumptions and breakdowns, and got another very long post... then lost it all. So I'll sum up with this rewrite:

The problem is not simply that Skills cost too much, specialisation works fine and at low Attribute levels no cracks can be seen. The issue is that raising the cost of many skills costs too much when compared to the cost of simply raising the controlling Attribute.

Equally, the problem is not that Attributes cost too little, they affect many other things than Skills, and there are many other reasons to improve them into 'excessive' levels. The issue is that they're commonly available to everyone and their limits combined with minimal (and cheap) investment into Skills produces insanely illogical expertise in whole swaths of generalist fields.

A solution that is both quick, easy, and directly addresses this is almost already in Basic Set. Defaults cannot exceed a set point regardless of how high the Attribute its based on is, namely, they assume any Attribute higher than 20 is just 20. The solution is simply to apply the same notion to all Skills.
Done.
GM's may wish to push this number as low as 15 or as high as 30, depending on the setting - but simply capping the contribution of an Attribute forces you to invest in Skills once that cap has been met.

A slightly more complex alternative, which might be fairer and more realistic, is that after you reach said cap - every level either grants a free level of a single Talent of your choice, or allows you to more easily train into one (if you use training etc). This lets you specialise into a field of excellence, but prevents you from running amok with insane proficiency in almost half of the skills linked to your amazingly high Attribute. Your GM may have to make a number of new Talents to fit this bill, in which case I suggest grabbing a copy of Power-Ups 3: Talents, its awesome.

Honestly though, its easy enough to fix if a GM discourages it and offers suitable Talents for individuals who wish to have a wider range of 'specialisation'. The tools are already out there to fix this 'issue' - but sticking a cap on your Attributes might incline your players (and the GM) towards using them a little more.

05-15-2014, 12:41 PM	#16
PseudoFenton Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Land of the Britons	Re: Another idea for the old skill VS Attribute conundrum Okay - I typed out a lot of logical assumptions and breakdowns, and got another very long post... then lost it all. So I'll sum up with this rewrite: The problem is not simply that Skills cost too much, specialisation works fine and at low Attribute levels no cracks can be seen. The issue is that raising the cost of many skills costs too much when compared to the cost of simply raising the controlling Attribute. Equally, the problem is not that Attributes cost too little, they affect many other things than Skills, and there are many other reasons to improve them into 'excessive' levels. The issue is that they're commonly available to everyone and their limits combined with minimal (and cheap) investment into Skills produces insanely illogical expertise in whole swaths of generalist fields. A solution that is both quick, easy, and directly addresses this is almost already in Basic Set. Defaults cannot exceed a set point regardless of how high the Attribute its based on is, namely, they assume any Attribute higher than 20 is just 20. The solution is simply to apply the same notion to all Skills. Done. GM's may wish to push this number as low as 15 or as high as 30, depending on the setting - but simply capping the contribution of an Attribute forces you to invest in Skills once that cap has been met. A slightly more complex alternative, which might be fairer and more realistic, is that after you reach said cap - every level either grants a free level of a single Talent of your choice, or allows you to more easily train into one (if you use training etc). This lets you specialise into a field of excellence, but prevents you from running amok with insane proficiency in almost half of the skills linked to your amazingly high Attribute. Your GM may have to make a number of new Talents to fit this bill, in which case I suggest grabbing a copy of Power-Ups 3: Talents, its awesome. Honestly though, its easy enough to fix if a GM discourages it and offers suitable Talents for individuals who wish to have a wider range of 'specialisation'. The tools are already out there to fix this 'issue' - but sticking a cap on your Attributes might incline your players (and the GM) towards using them a little more. __________________ ...like a monkey with a wrench.