Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
It's always a problem when the xp system doesn't match the character creation system, because it encourages you to take a dump stat as it reduces the xp cost to reach your final goal. For example, let's say my goal is stats of 16/16/8.
If I start at 12/12/8, it will cost me 6,600 xp to reach my goal. If I start at 16/8/8, it will cost me 4,700 xp.
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Yes, I'm also concerned that this system is vulnerable to serious min-maxing.
I ran the exact analysis you did and concur with your conclusions. And there's no easy fix - I tried to mitigate this by reducing the rate at which attributes get more expensive. No matter what I did, the 16/8/8 character had a 20%+ advantage. At the end of the day, if you use the classic TFT chargen system with an XP system that makes higher attributes more expensive, you will incentivize maxing out one stat at the beginning.
Nor do I think conforming character creation with the XP system will produce a desirable result. You'll end up with a system that looks much like GURPS. One that will require
much more time to generate a character. And you'll simply trade one set of dubious incentives for another.
Here's what such a system might look like (Steve's XP amounts have been divided by 100 and normed to make the totals bearable):
Stat - Points
8 – 0 pts
9 – 2 pts
10 – 5 pts
11 – 9 pts
12 – 14 pts
13 – 20 pts
14 – 27 pts
15 – 36 pts
16 – 47 pts
17 – 62 pts
18 – 82 pts
+1 - previous points +25 (i.e., 107 for a 19)
+2 - previous points +30 (i.e. 137 for a 20)
Etc.
For simplicity, talents and spells omitted.
(You can equate this to Steve's xp system by multiplying my points by 100 and adding 100. However, the numbers are inconveniently huge).
The $50 Question: How Many Points do you Start With?
Cost of various 32 point characters:
A ST11 DX11 IQ10 starting character will cost 9+9+5 = 23 points
A ST12 DX10 IQ10 starting character will cost 14+5+5 = 24 points
A ST12 DX12 IQ8 starting character will cost 14+14+0 = 28 points
A ST13 DX11 IQ8 starting character will cost 20+9+0 = 29 points
A ST14 DX10 IQ8 starting character will cost 27+5+0 = 32 points
A ST15 DX9 IQ8 starting character will cost 36+2+0 = 38 points
A ST16 DX8 IQ8 starting character will cost 47+0+0 = 47 points
Indeed, the 47 points spent on the last character would pay for a ST13 DX14 IQ8 character - 35 attribute points.
Using the XP system - or any system that assigns higher costs to higher stat level - to buy starting attributes will produce different initial attribute totals.
I dunno about this...
It may be a better idea to stay with XP costs to raise attributes being based on the total attribute points. Here's a system that would cost 5500 xp for 8 extra attribute points (around the average number of xp that Steve's system would require):
Attribute Cost
1st extra point - 100 xp
2nd extra point - 200 xp
3rd extra point - 300 xp
4th extra point - 500 xp
5th extra point - 700 xp
6th extra point - 900 xp
7th extra point - 1200 xp
8th extra point - 1600 xp
Endless variations are possible of course.
After the third attribute point, talents (at 100-300 xp) start looking attractive instead of increasing attributes.
Encouraging de-dumping of dump stats is a dubious endeavor, in my opinion. It invariably boils down to making attributes of 9 and 10 cost less. And that creates the incentive to max out one stat at chargen.
A simpler solution is start humans at ST9 DX9 IQ9, with 5 extra points. Or even ST10 DX10 IQ10, with 2 (!) extra points. Of course, I don't care for either one.