[Moneval]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

When Phil Masters did Age of Gold he had 3 different types of P/B and most of them covered about 3 Paths I think. He used traditional European Witchcraft, eastern Element-based and a sort of Aleister Crowley/Golden Dawn thing.

Getting Age of Gold to look at these worked example might help you. I find it to be a very cool little supplement.

You sound like you might be aiming for one tradition per culture. You might want to organize into "books" of Rituals that each culture used rather than broad "Paths". This would cut down on everyone taking Path of Health to get Succor (beloved of PCs who risk getting wounded all the time) and a few other really basic Rituals without losing some level of customization.

So it sounds like 3 or 4 paths might be good. Although, I hadn't considered creating "books" for the various traditions. That seems like a good way to keep some control over what's available. If I go that route, would it still be possible to have Books in a traditional sense (Book of the Names of the Dead and the like).

I think I will pick up Age of Gold. Sounds interesting.

Originally Posted by Emerald Cat

You could use Thaumatology: Sorcery to model Evoking out of the box. Sorcerers cast spells quickly, but don't have much flexibility. Since Sorcery is a magic as powers system, you can easily turn any Power writeups into spells.



I'd go with 3 to 5 paths per tradition. Fewer than 3, and you might as well use the tradition's core skill for everything. Each tradition effectively becomes its own magic system if there are 6 or more paths per tradition

I agree that Books unique to each tradition would be the right way to go.



My advice would be to choose paths using the Syntactic magic advice from Thaumatology. Each tradition focusing on one path would make them feel unique. You may want to eliminate the default to the core skill if you go this route.

Have you checked out the Incantation Magic variant of RPM? All of the path skills in that system are distinct enough to be their own tradition.

I did consider Sorcery. How is it different than say, using the Psionics system as magic?

I haven't looked into Incantation Magic, though I'm intrigued. How does it differ from core RPM?

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

This is in fact the only reason that "Unusual Background" would appear. An entire race common in the setting that can cast spells could hardly be considered "unusual"!

UB is not a catch-all advantage meant for adjusting prices for balancing purposes. It's specifically meant to cover the "soft" advantages a character would have because their abilities are unexpected and can't and won't easily be countered. If next to no one in the setting has ever heard of magic and they have no defenses or concept ways to deal with magicians (as with secret magic in a modern-dal real-world setting), UB might be appropriate.

If you just think magic is really powerful and ought to cost more, then just change the prices for your magical advantages. For most systems, a simple flat surcharge, regardless of level of magical skill, flexibility, or power, isn't often the most appropriate pricing anyway. In a magic-as-powers system, for instance, you might be better off just removing the usual "countermeasures" discount that's part of the Power Modifier than just charging 10 points.

UB also is not a cost for simple in-setting rarity. It's irrelevant what proportion of the population has magical potential, for instance. That never on its own qualifies for a UB charge. Heroes are rare and unusual people by definition. UB isn't for attempting to have the rules enforce demographic outcomes by stacking player choices against the rare heroes. Your adventuring parties aren't going to reflect the demographic statistics of the world anyway. If there are mages in the party, you'll need to find some other way to give the feeling that magic is rare -- no matter what you charged that PC, it's still in the party and using magic all the time. It's only when the rarity itself turns into an extra advantage -- banks don't have enchantments defending their vaults, the cops laugh and think you're a nutcase if you suggest magic might have been used, and no one but the perp can even cast spells -- does simple low frequency become UB.

(In 3e, UB was also used a charge for breaking the rules in character creation -- having several "native" languages for "free", even though characters only got one native language. This interpretation isn't used in 4e at all; you just pay for the languages, and the backstory about your merchant family upbringing or whatever is just fluff text. Going all Kvothe on your backstory to claim lots of free advantages doesn't in 4e mean you didn't pay for them and thus need a correcting factor. You just pay for them.)

That makes sense. I wasn't 100% sold on having a race of sensitives anyway. I do want to keep Evoking kind of rare. So without a sensitive race, and with maybe 3% of the global population sensitive, should it be a UB then, or just remove the countermeasure limitation? When is UB appropriate? I want to make sure I'm fair to the players.

Thanks again everyone!