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Old 05-18-2019, 08:16 PM   #7
Nils_Lindeberg
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Re: Weapon Mastery, the long and winding road

Larsdangly, I absolutely agree that starting as a 35 point character is an alternative, but it is kind of strange that a player that starts at 35 points have many more options than a 32 point character that advances up to 35 points. I would almost expect it to be the other way around.

Handicap points are a very valid alternative to get around the problem, even if it doesn't fix it. :-)

But still, it is awkward and clunky. It would be smoother if it didn't matter much in which order you got to ST 10, DX 14, IQ 13 and a weapon mastery talent. In most game systems the order would not be relevant, the total xp needed would usually be the same.

Skarg, when I say it is balanced I mean that if I make different fighters with a 39 point total, there are top contenders with mastery and there are those with just expertise, and probably even a non-expert build in there too. I was surprised by how balanced it was. Sure the different builds performed somewhat different against different opposition and a greatsword wielder with high DX and low IQ had advantages like sweeping attacks, and mastery fighters with shield mastery had better defense against many opponents, and so on. But they are balanced. So there is no need to make mastery the "ultimate" reward for an advanced character. Just like you can start with ST 16, DX8 and IQ 8. Not the best build but it works and you can have the "ultimate" ST from the start. If you want to that is.

As it stands now, weapon mastery is not worth it. The extra glitchy XP cost is to steep, better to stay an expert (that you bought from the start) and invest in better attributes if you want to be a badass. And I don't complain about the cost. I am not a munchkin that wants to get it all after five evenings of gaming. I complain that the system is slightly illogical and not consistent. I wouldn't complain if the mastery was slightly better and had higher prereqs. since that would be balanced too. It is the strange fixed cost of talents. Combined with an exponential XP system. Combined with IQ that gives extra talents from start, but not later on. And the fact that you can't save up talent points or buy a talent that you don't have the ST or DX prereqs. for (but later on when you do fulfill the prereqs. you can start using them).

An ST 8 fighter is pretty feeble, I agree, but then again Arya with her Needle comes to mind. And she seems to be doing ok for her self. Or any other kind of back-stabbing rogue build (with Shrewd and maybe even two attacks with a back bonus). Or you could use a rapier with a negative modifier that you compensate for with magic or a finely crafted blade and so on. Such a build wouldn't top the lists but would be a strange alternative like the ST16 fighter above. And I don't want it working from character creation necessarily, I just want to be able to get it in a logical manner. I might even put in a house rule for an even higher level of mastery, just like UC got five levels. But if only a 40 point character can get those it shouldn't matter how they got to 40 points or in which order they took the talents or attribute advancements. The order of advancement didn't use to matter in the old version.

TippetsTX, I liked the study system too, and the fact that you got talents both for starting IQ and later IQ increases and could leave a few points unspent and spend them later once you had the prereqs. I think this is my main concern.

And yes RobW it is a more general question, but the more prereqs. that is needed the more strange it gets. Most talents with just IQ prereqs. can be taken from the start and doing so circumvent the problem, but it's no fun when everyone tries to start their character at their goal IQ instead of IQ being an attribute that increases over time like the others. As a GM I would even go so far as to recommend new players in a long campaign to get Master Physicker from start, or at least the IQ for it, if they planned on getting that talent later, instead of beginning with standard Physicker, IQ 11 and increase IQ with XP. If I didn't warn them they might get a little ****** off when they realized they just ditched 1500 XP for no good reason.

I think I will go with the possibility to save talent points in the form of Study Talents combined with the house rule of IQ increases also giving you talent points. I don't think that adjustment would be game breaking in any way.
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