Quote:
Originally Posted by onetrikpony
Extra effort is an optional rule, and the lifting skill doesn't have any default.
So... given those parameters GURPS lifting and carrying capacity is even lower than it should be to represent an average (10) and maximum (20).
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I'm not sure what your point is about lifting not having a default (those without lifting skill can use EE to increase their lift)
Extra effort may well be an optional rule, but if you watch weight lifting competitions it's rather a realistic one. So I think it's good to include it when trying to model this.
The thing is if you don't include these two factors instead just using a ST range, you end you with ST20 people how can automatically make larger Olympic record weight fits every few seconds for as long as they like.
And that's just not how it works.
This also leaves aside that ST20 is the racial average for a 1,000lb polar bear
Quote:
Originally Posted by onetrikpony
(IMO the lifting skill (+5% / MoS) doesn't represent how badly poor technique hampers your strength at a lift but probably represents real-world situations, outside the gym pretty well.)
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Don't forget that when you use lift in conjunction with EE it's a different system
Quote:
Originally Posted by onetrikpony
I definitely agree with that. I also agree with all of the points that followed except for #2. In terms of units of force ft/lbs, Joules human striking power is pretty much in line with hand guns. (according to my research.)
The average karate guy punches with 120-150 ft-lb which is pretty much inline with the muzzle energy you'd get from .22lr handgun. Frank Bruno was measured to land 1400+ Lb*F which extrapolates to 1600 Joules. That's easily the same power as a 10mm cartridge (IIRC. I'll links and pastem below.)
We know that humans are physically capable of producing thrust damage in line with pistol cartridge damage so, to me, it doesn't seem unrealistic that that same power applied to swing damage and a sword kills people outright.
However; Bigger != Faster and a ST20 power lifter can't hit like a ST16 heavyweight. The difference would be skill so I'm fully on board with the skill = power system. (and diametrically opposed to the 2x HP & Dmg system)
I would suggest (as a humble GURPS newb) that Striking Strength be capped at (some point) and skills grant access to surpassing that cap.
Links:
wiki on common handgun cartridge power https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muzzle...and_cartridges
Clinical study of concussion in football and boxing
https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...osergery-X.pdf
An article that references several real studies of boxers none of which I can find now but I recall to be referenced correctly. (will keep looking F'n internet! no body sites anything anymore.)
http://www.connectsavannah.com/savan...nt?oid=2133328
An awesome scan of an ancient magazine article about Rocky Marciano and what he used to do to guys in the ring.
www.kolumbus.fi/Luodes/Rocky1.JPGand www.kolumbus.fi/Luodes/Rocky2.JPG |
The problems is ft-lbs is not very good way to quantify how very different weapons injure people (large slow moving fists vs. very fast but small bullets).