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Originally Posted by Icelander
Messy, loud and unecessary.
In reality, stabbing someone more is not going to make them magically instantly dead. They'll die when they bleed out and all you're doing is making more holes for the blood to escape from. As long as you manage to open big veins and arteries with your first stab and then working the knife around, you're good.
It's perfectly reasonable to rule that no amount of stabbing is going to prevent a dying character from making a dying speech, giving a dying shout or emptying his rifle into the air, at the GM's discretion. The only way to do that is to control him through a grapple while he is dying.
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Except that there's no definition of 'while he is dying'. It does not exist. There is absolutely nothing in the system that says how long I have to wait.
I'm not proposing skipping the grappling. Obviously, that won't work. I'm saying that switching from one hand grappling and one hand stabbing to two hands grappling is not productive.
I'm also not saying this is true in
reality. But if it is true in GURPS but not reality, well, that's notable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander
All of which are going to take you at least 30 seconds, realistically. And make noise. Hacking at someone with a knife is not completely silent and the fewer attacks you have to make, the better for stealth.
For that matter, realistically, you never know that they've bled to death. You hold on at least 30 seconds and up to 2 minutes so that you can be reasonably certain that the sentry is securely unconscious at the very least.
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No thanks to GURPS bleeding...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icelander
And even with unmodified GURPS rules, this works. While you're grappling and/or stabbing, the sentry is going to be making HT checks to retain consciousness. And within 30 seconds, he'll fail one, because it's pretty much a given that no one will be content to Do Nothing while you bleed them out in the hope that you'll fall for his Acting. Playing dead is fine, but not while someone has a knife in your neck and is actively draining out your blood.
And while instant Diagnosis in the dark is very hard, knowing when someone you hold for 30 seconds is either dead, or so unconscious that he might as well be, receives a significant bonus.
The main use of holding on for a while after inflicting enough damage for a mortal wound is so that a stunned or faking sentry can't make noise. Once you're pretty sure he's unconscious (and dying) or already dead, you can let go.
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It doesn't work in GURPS when you've ruled that failing an HT check to retain consciousness doesn't mean you can't still actively cause trouble. Why does that ruling cease to apply here? In what way does holding a guy for 30 seconds get to force actual unconsciousness rather than that watered-down 'unconsciousness' that doesn't actually mean they have to stop doing things?