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Old 01-29-2016, 10:32 AM   #5
dfinlay
 
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Default Re: Advice on Spirit-based RPM variant

I feel like you may have misinterpreted (or I misexpressed) my proposal. The idea is basically that a spirit can automatically cast any spell up to their energy maximum within their domain, at least when a human mage is getting them to. The spirit doesn't roll, but the effect-shaping roll done by the human is actually a roll to invoke/bring forth/convince the spirit to help.

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Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
Cool. I like it. Has a very shamanistic feel to it.
What I was going for.

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Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
Ok. So here's an odd thought: What if Assisting Spirits was standard? Basically, you can't fuel your own spells - you must have a spirit to help.
This is what I was going for from a fluff point of view - the process of casting is the process of convincing a spirit to cast the spell for you. That said, I'm not quite sure what you mean from a mechanics point of view. I can find three versions of assisting spirits: One reduces the difficulty of skills, which I guess I could do to make up for some of the limitations this system adds to RPM. One uses the spirit's casting skills instead of your own, which seems lame since it makes it so casters don't even need skills. One lets the spirit give you energy, which doesn't make a lot of sense with Effect Shaping.

Instead, what I did was to have spirits be a prerequisite for casting, so if you want to cast a fire spell, you first have to find a fire spirit with enough energy maximum to allow it.

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Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
I'd use the Assisting Spirits model plus maybe Contacts. So each spirit has a skill level for spells to provide energy, multiply that skill level by 3 to get the maximum amount they can provide. So if you have a spirit of Memory as a Contact with a skill of 12 he can at most provide 36 energy for memory spells. So that's a spell with up to a -4 casting penalty for effect-shaping.
Hmm...if I'm understanding correctly, that seems fairly limiting. If you want to cast 200 energy spells, you need a spirit with skill 67. I realize 200 skill is very high, but not skill 67 high. Plus, pricing ally spirits as contacts seems off to me. Fluff-wise, they are contacts, but mechanically, they are the ability to cast RPM spells within their field from anywhere, rather than having to find a place with the appropriate spirit.

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Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
This is Base 10 magery. You start at 10 and each level costs 10. If you're doing this then Magery (Effect-Shaping RPM) doesn't exist - you want to get better with spells increase your Magery Attribute or find better spirits (who should have Magery themselves).
No, you misinterpreted. I know Base 10 magery. This isn't that. What I was saying was the following: Say you want to cast a fire spell through Maltrus. Maltrus's attribute is Will (in other words, casters get Maltrus to cooperate with them by having a strong identity and sense of purpose and by mentally imposing themselves on him). So, the caster looks at his Will, which is 12, his magery, which is 2 and his Path of Energy, which has 8 points for a RSL of +0 and his effective skill for this casting is 14. If he later tries to cast the same spell with a spirit who values nimbleness and agility (DX), his DX of 9 will give him only an effective skill of 11.

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Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
Also Contacts or Patrons if I were you. When figuring the cost here, I'd make sure the base cost for such spirits is equal to whatever level of Magery they might provide if it were limited. I'd use Special Abilities as a leveled trait here to make sure the cost works out right.
So, having them cost as much as limited magery makes sense for the ones that provide a bonus, but not all of them will. The main advantage of spirit guardians is that they allow one to cast a certain class of spells without having to first find the domain of an appropriate spirit and to use the attribute you want to use (you'd pick this one making the spirit), rather than the attribute the spirit you managed to find somewhere wants you to use.

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Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
Hmmm. Ok. Maybe use Mana Enhancerer (Place of Power) or something.
Hmmm....this might work. Again, PoP gives a bonus, whereas this just allows casting in the first place, but maybe considering the world no-mana and this to be a mana enhancer...hmm...

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Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
I'd combine Path of Spirit and Magic into one personally. And really, the spirit-based bit is window-dressing - the mechanics are the same so don't stress over that. You don't have to change anything. Basically, think of it like this: if all magic is spirit-based then it still gets broken up into Paths the same way. You're changing the battery in the remote, not the remote's functions.
This is fair, though it makes that merged path even more useful, where Path of Magic was already pretty much required for all mages. Maybe move conditional spells out of Path of Magic and add spirit stuff in.

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Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
Nah, not really. It can be more powerful and more limited at the same time.
I'm not really sure how it's more powerful. It means that casters can't cast the spell they want in the places they want. Instead they have to seek out somewhere they can cast the spell and if they want the spell to take effect somewhere else, they have to make a hostile charm to do so, potentially ******* off a powerful spirit as a byproduct. Not to mention the fact that the spirit they finally find may use an attribute that the character doesn't have very high.

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Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
Sorcery and RPM work quite well together - one of my campaigns does exactly this and it works very well.
Oh, I realize they are compatible. I was more concerned with heavily-nerfed RPM vs Sorcery and I'm definitely unconvinced this isn't a nerf.

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Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
At a glance, I'd say to divide the total amount of energy given by 10 to get a +1 bonus to negate spell penalties for effect-shaping. If it gives a bonus then I'd divide by 20.
Sounds good.

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Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
That works and is balanced - I've done this for fae magic that ALL fae know in one of my campaigns.
Great.
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