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Kelly Pedersen · 04-17-2018, 08:03 PM

This is what I'd call a "white room" problem - that is, one that turns up more in theory, when you're assuming absolutely ideal conditions, than in real life (at least, real life games), where circumstances are rarely so ideal.

Looking at the conditions you've suggested, I'd note right off the bat that All-Out Defense is actually a rather poor tactical choice, because it puts the character who takes it entirely on the defensive. They can't attack with it, which means they'll just be taking attacks over and over. Eventually, the attacker will roll a critical hit which the defender won't be able to parry, no matter their skill, and then they're in trouble.

Then there's the retreat bonus. Getting this requires there to be space to retreat to, and nothing says that a retreat gets to ignore things like bad terrain either. A pair of fighters moving back and forth over tree roots, loose stones, on a slick floor, etc., etc.... well, eventually one of them is going to fail a DX roll and go down, and then the one who's still up has a big bonus.

And you're only assuming one parry per person. Most fights in a typical session aren't one-on-one, they're group-on-group. And even if those groups have equal numbers, the smarter tacticians are going to be focusing their attacks on the weakest link of the other side, using multiple attacks against one target to wear their defenses down, take them out, then move on to the next. Really good tacticians will arrange to surround one of their foes, so that at least a couple of attacks come in from the back spaces where they get no defense at all.

Bear in mind, all these situations I've described tend to require other skills besides just high melee weapon skill to really take advantage of - Acrobatics, Tactics, and so forth. This is a good thing, it means that being the best fighter is not just a matter of piling points into one skill, it's a matter of being a well-rounded, clever individual who's always looking for the next advantage. And if you really have two people who are equally matched at all elements of combat, well, I'd say it taking a long time for them to get anywhere in a fight actually makes perfect sense. With someone just as good as you, you've basically got to wait for lucky breaks (i.e., critical hits) to really succeed.

04-17-2018, 08:03 PM	#2
Kelly Pedersen Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Saskatoon, SK, Canada	Re: High defenses in 4th edition This is what I'd call a "white room" problem - that is, one that turns up more in theory, when you're assuming absolutely ideal conditions, than in real life (at least, real life games), where circumstances are rarely so ideal. Looking at the conditions you've suggested, I'd note right off the bat that All-Out Defense is actually a rather poor tactical choice, because it puts the character who takes it entirely on the defensive. They can't attack with it, which means they'll just be taking attacks over and over. Eventually, the attacker will roll a critical hit which the defender won't be able to parry, no matter their skill, and then they're in trouble. Then there's the retreat bonus. Getting this requires there to be space to retreat to, and nothing says that a retreat gets to ignore things like bad terrain either. A pair of fighters moving back and forth over tree roots, loose stones, on a slick floor, etc., etc.... well, eventually one of them is going to fail a DX roll and go down, and then the one who's still up has a big bonus. And you're only assuming one parry per person. Most fights in a typical session aren't one-on-one, they're group-on-group. And even if those groups have equal numbers, the smarter tacticians are going to be focusing their attacks on the weakest link of the other side, using multiple attacks against one target to wear their defenses down, take them out, then move on to the next. Really good tacticians will arrange to surround one of their foes, so that at least a couple of attacks come in from the back spaces where they get no defense at all. Bear in mind, all these situations I've described tend to require other skills besides just high melee weapon skill to really take advantage of - Acrobatics, Tactics, and so forth. This is a good thing, it means that being the best fighter is not just a matter of piling points into one skill, it's a matter of being a well-rounded, clever individual who's always looking for the next advantage. And if you really have two people who are equally matched at all elements of combat, well, I'd say it taking a long time for them to get anywhere in a fight actually makes perfect sense. With someone just as good as you, you've basically got to wait for lucky breaks (i.e., critical hits) to really succeed.