[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

We're not grappling with our waited-CA, we're gonna grapple with the next-turn Attack (or whatever).

Hang on, the post I responded to said CA,

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

MA says that one of the options of Shoving People Around is to change one's facing, as far as I remember.

Thats for the grappler, what about the grappled, it's also after the grapple has been established what about just being in CC

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Anyway, you can reach his Rear-Left hex with CA or with a normal Attack + Sideslip (assuming he doesn't Feint instead, which he might!). You don't try to grapple yet. You grapple with your next turn, Stepping into CC into his back arc.

right (but only after wait allowing you to string both together without allowing the target a chance to move) and he can still retreat against your step/grapple to CC.

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Judo can sweep/trip, yes?

yes but at lower skill (sweep is skill -3, trip is skill parry -1) and actually since is expressly says you can't attack with trip, I wouldn't allow you to feint with it (offensive trip is basically sweep)

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

There are special exceptions for those with Peripheral Vision.
Which means that if you don't expect the opponent to have PV, you can even go CA and just double-step to his rear-right hex, eliminating the issue of being unable to grab the knife arm entirely (whatever is its resolution on cross-grabs).

Only how does that make the left hand punch not wild?

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Well, you may want to change that, but then you'll have to do arrangements such as AABAABAA for fights between two speedsters with ATR of differing levels, and other, trickier complications; it's unlikely to be playable in a PnP RPG like GURPS.

To be fair I'm not sure I really care hoe two speedsters with ATR works out, it not really my level of play. I was just pointing out that given the premise of GURPS combat is concurrent action in 1 second cycle, Wait in this scenario risks being abused to an extant that breaks that basic premise.

However we just had a thread on that pretty much determined that you and I have different views on wait.

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

The target must succeed in avoiding the grapple in order to successfully retreat out of CC. Otherwise, you grab, and you hold on, in CC.

Yes (retreat increases you chance of doing that of course)

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

I mean: Wait-CA double-step into his rear-left hex, then Attack into his rear into CC before he gets his turn. Optionally, you can replace Wait-CA with Wait-A and then Sideslip. But really, the -5 for Wild Swing and the max 9 is nasty against someone with skill 12. It just means you can't Defensive-Arm Lock.

Only if you Wait-CA double step into his rear left hex, he'll retreat as a response to you penalised attack, ruining you position tactic, he'll then complete his attack (benefiting from the potential chance in position) and you'll be hit with CA defence penalties.

This doesn't seem to have much to do with post I was responding too.

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Point. Though this is a tangent - you can only meaningfully strike/grapple twice if you're in range. OTOH, if your first attack was Waited, then you can step forward on your next attack to stay within range, before he gets to Retreat and Step on his next turn.

Thing is to get two attacks in row you still have to be in CC range twice, and you can't do that and get round to flank hex.

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

If I step into his rear on the third step (the one on the non-Waited attack), what's wrong about grabbing his right hand? Facing penalties for being attacked from the back surely apply!

Because you can't grab any arm from his back hex, you can only grab in CC.

we seem to constantly talking past each on this one so lets restate.

You start directly facing him in his front hex. if you CA you can move two hexes around to his back left hex. (but you can't grapple as you are not in CC range). If you then make Step attack you can move into CC with your step, or move one more hex around to his rear hex (but again you can't grapple if you do that your not in CC range).

to go from the front hex to the back rear hex and then into CC you need to move a total of 4 steps. You can do this with wait CA followed by another CA, or a wait feint with step, a defence with slip and a CA. But the former gives the target a chance to retreat which will ruin it, the later is the only way to do it without giving the target a chance to retreat, but you'll be taking an attack and your unarmed.

And again facing penalties apply for attacks form the back hex(es), where are the rules (other then in TG) for facing and CC?

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Which brings us to looking at other possibilities:
He does not approach.
He CA's.
He AoA's.
He defensively approaches in AoD:Dodge.
He Moves And Attacks (maybe with a Slam).
He Moves in.
Thoughts on each?
AoA seems too risky against a skilled opponent: instant grab/takedown, maybe Trip or something else, at +4 for Telegraphic Attack.

I'm happy to look at all of them But I suggest we do one at a time, because I think were confusing each other because we're not sure which set up we're referring to at each point of the the back and forth here.

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Jump-kick feint does look OTT. A trip/sweep seems like an absolutely legit threat! IF the opponent doesn't take leg threats seriously, he should suffer a big penalty to defending against leg attacks, at least as severe as Boxers get, probably worse.

That seems reasonable, or course the QC will be based off your Sweep or trip skill, which makes sense its harder to believably pretend to sweep than pretend to punch.