Quote:
Originally Posted by GranitePenguin
The first thing to address is the fact the current rules for beaches list them as full-hex terrain, not hex-side terrain (clear with a beach edge). Applying it to other terrain types would mean a clear redefinition of what a beach is.
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They are referred to as a "Beach Hex" and are Clear Terrain hexes. However, you can only use the Beach Terrain and it's benefit if the unit that is moving through the Beach hex uses a side that has a Beach "hexside".
The rule also states that Beach hexes "appear only on overlays". So, they are overlays. The overlay hexes officially available have one, two and three "hexsides" of Beach. This clearly means technically, Beaches are essentially hexside overlays which a hex can have up to six hex sides be Beach. They would be like the Ridge overlay for example as far as shape and size, but be Beach colored and used the same when placing them. (Like in the PC Game before this "Bug" was removed).
Applying this to Terrain other than Swamp would actually not redefine what a Beach is, it would still be a Beach on the hexsides of: Forest, Town, and Rubble. Even Swamp would use the same rule, the only difference here is it would need a cosmetic change from a Beach colored hexside overlay to a lighter green colored Swamp color showing it's not a Beach but a less dense Swamp border, otherwise using the same rules. So, Swamp is the only one that is technically not using a Beach overlay in this case.
It would be useful here to simply call the light green overlays "Marsh". Swamp has trees, ect. while Marsh has low lying vegetation.
Marsh hexside overlays would work the same as Beach hexside overlays, they would just be colored light green and placed on Swamp hexsides. You could also have full-hex Marsh Terrain Tokens with up to six hexsides being Marsh and not need to use the Marsh overlays on Swamp instead. The full-size Marsh Terrain would look the same as Swamp with any Marsh hexsides being a light green. Basically, the same treatment that Beach Terrain Tokens were given.
"2.01.9 Beach. A beach hex is a clear hex which borders a water hex, and includes at least one hexside which is hard, flat, and gently sloped from
water to land. These “beach hexsides” are shown in tan. Beach hexes appear only on overlays, for use in scenarios. Beach is treated as ordinary clear terrain for all purposes. Exception: GEVs may move through a beach hexside from land to water, or vice versa, without ending the turn at the edge of the water. If a road or railroad passes through the beach hex, a GEV may move from road/RR to water or vice versa and get a road bonus for that phase, if and only if it passes through the beach hexside."
Quote:
Originally Posted by GranitePenguin
I do agree that there are plenty of examples in nature of beaches with other terrain types (eg, forests), but in the context where this originally came up (swamp), it doesn't necessarily make sense to use "beach" to represent it.
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I agree, Swamp is the only edge case here, Swamps don't have Beaches. In this case I suggest calling it Marsh. The Marsh would be colored light green, but otherwise uses the Beach rules.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GranitePenguin
The next thing to address is what game element is really being added? The core element that is trying to be "fixed" is allowing a GEV to ignore a water/land transition's "stream effect" where the GEV has to start next to the transition to move across. There actually _is_ a hex-side terrain that accomplishes this already (sort of): ramps.
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I'm not trying to "fix" anything. Nothing is broken. The suggestion is simply trying to add complimenting new Terrain without useless complexity. I gave the example of my QUAGMIRE scenario. Having "Marsh" instead of Swamp where GEVs don't have to stop before entering turned that scenario from fun up to 11. It was incredible how just a simple thing would do that. "Marsh" usable on Swamp and "Beach" usable on Forest, Town and Rubble in the game would give players more choices of Terrain which would create more dynamic and fun games. Because Terrain is as important as the units in OGRE, adding these would open up more scenario possibilities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GranitePenguin
Ramps are technically just extensions of roads into water (2.03.1); there isn't an _actual_ terrain type, but they do exist. There's nothing stopping you from putting a ramp in a hex with no road to get the same effect.
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But these are not man-made Ramps, they are terrain. I'd like to have the Terrain look like what it really is representing in game. Using Ramps also become a problem because units on them ignore underlying terrain.
"2.03 Roads and railroads. These features always run through the center of hexes. They do not change the underlying terrain type, but units on the road/railroad ignore all movement penalties for terrain."
"2.03.1 Roads. Hexes containing a gray line with a dashed yellow center are road hexes. Units which enter a hex on the road may ignore any movement penalties for the underlying terrain. A unit which stays on the road for its entire movement phase gets a “road bonus” to movement (see Section 5.07.1). Roads do not affect combat. If a road leads straight into a water hex, it is a GEV ramp, specifically made to allow GEVs to move between land and water without losing the road bonus."
Quote:
Originally Posted by GranitePenguin
So the real question would be, are ramps sufficient to cover the need, or would it make sense to add a true hex-side type that can be used between any land/water transition?
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It would make more sense to add true hexside overlays. The real question becomes is this worth investing in to make available? I think it is.
Here's a image I did up using terrain images from the rules to illustrate the suggestion:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/128248...7685954428302/
Note: I think "Marsh" and Beach hexside overlays the same size as Ridge overlays would work. That's what was being used in the PC game basically for Beaches, the overlay was on both sides of a hex line side like a Ridge.
As always, Thanks for commenting and feedback. :)