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Old 11-19-2014, 03:44 PM   #42
Sindri
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Default Re: Reaction Table House Rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
It's not easy to master all possible tools. But even this sentence looks like it concedes the comparison of Charisma to a tool, which I would rather not. As to the Performer vs. Technician - actually, most artists seem to have a mix of two, but how do you use both simultaneously? A pianist can either play with perfect timing exactly as taught by the music book, or play an inspired improvisation stepping away from the staffbook, or adhere to the book while letting some amount of stepping away from it, and in either case will hope that the music will be good as a result. But a pianist cannot play both perfectly by the book and be completely unchained and carelessly improvisational simultaneously.
Technical skill isn't about perfect replication. It's about producing something that is technically impressive. A Technician without any Performer aspects will be stuck doing that like a Performer without any Technician aspects will be stuck doing inspired but rather technically bland products but someone who's both a Technician and a Performer can produce original works that are also technically impressive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
More like cultural exposure. A huge, I think overwhelming majority, of people have no idea how they do the social things they do, and thus can't instruct others in it.
Cultures collectively instruct people by exposure. The overwhelming majority of people would find formally instructing someone from a completely foreign culture slow and awkward but a huge amount of people find themselves instructing someone in how to behave socially. Any parent for one thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
Interesting. By the definitions of Charisma I've seen, it seems the other way around: many Influence skills are attempts to emulate Charisma / Reactions through a technical means (in the sense of technique, not of material equipment).
That's fundamentally the same thing though. There are social capabilities that are heavily ingrained and as such trip very few people's this-person-is-trying-to-manipulate-me sense and social capabilities that are less ingrained and as such trip it much more easily. Either analyzing the first as an especially well trained version of the second or analyzing the second as a significantly less effective version of the first is legitimate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
It's possible for someone mediocrely to get a ride on the wave of circumstances, for a talent to be ditched by bad luck, for a talented/skilled person to achieve all through personal qualities in spite of circumstances (this may be cheesy, but I want to point at Stephen Hawking), and for the mediocre one to achieve nothing. It would be nice for a system to support each of the cases.
Indeed. An interplay of circumstantial bonuses and intrinsic skills should get there. Remember that what someone will accomplish isn't limited to what someone gets from an initial reaction though. Great achievements are only accomplished by talking to a whole bunch of people once and seeing how they react if you happen to impress someone else who can actually do sustained social activity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
Yeah, dividing a d6 into ten isn't a pleasant matter.
Oh but you get to roll a control die. Gygax would be so proud.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
Well, if Reaction Rolls aren't common, then suddenly Luck becomes much more useful in such situations, since you're becoming less likely to need it until the end of the conversation again (in case you needed it at the beginning).

Personally, I think I don't roll Reaction often enough. As for making them appealing: I wonder if players would find the custom table appealing.
I suspect that
PC: 'Bond, James Bond.'
NPC: 'Hey pal. Step in line like all the others.'
and
PC: I step out of the shadows.
NPC: 'Oh, a nosferatu-samedi-abomination-something thing . . . good evening and welcome, are you here to see Mr. Wayne too?'
would be funny and cute if done once or twice, but very disappointing if they were relatively common.
I'm unlikely to roll Reactions much now since I don't like the rules and I prefer to not roll for things if there is a strong chance of just discarding the results anyway.

I suspect that Bond and the nosferatu don't have as extreme reaction modifiers as they could justify, but Bond might be somewhat placated by no longer needing to overcome rolled Very Bad reactions with modifiers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
Well, RAW was Good for getting a meeting somewhere private, Very Good for getting physical (which may be anything from an allegedly accidental touch and all the way to figuring why the realistic version of Erotic Art doesn't allow FP transfers between partners, depending on factors that are hard to convert into numbers). But I'm guessing that a deniable maybe-date-maybe-just-a-friendly-funtime should be what the Favourable reaction from your table should represent - it seems to fit thematically.
Ahh, I didn't read your post right. A date in a private location should indeed be Good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
That being said, I don't think most people have points, let alone enough points for Skill 10-12+, in things like Carousing or Sex Appeal; living on Defaults is perfectly common.
That's why people obsessively try to accumulate bonuses through taking extra time, spending money on stuff etc. It gets normal people to behave realistically while a highly socially skilled PC can improvise a wonderful date for someone possibly while other stressful stuff is going on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
You mean capping Status at 6, or what do you mean? I'm still confused.
No, I'm musing that the cap for Charisma could be extended to 6 or 8 to parallel other traits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
Hmm. I wonder how large the population of near-max Charisma people was/is, and how many of them simply did not get recorded in history.
It's difficult to tell. We know about Alexander because his personal gifts were united with getting handed powerful tools. Being heir to the throne of Macedon is probably good for getting Charisma but what does a peasant do with it? Perhaps lead a peasant rebellion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
It takes some careful thinking to make a Talent into a point crock. Generally, Talents are ways to achieve higher skills now rather than later that are less efficient in general. Buying Attributes is more efficient unless your skill pool is really narrow.
They are a point crock by their very nature. They're almost precisely like buying skill levels but less expensively and their niche disadvantages compared to skills don't make sense anyway.

Attributes are also point crocks, I just can justify them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
Now, as for Reaction Bonuses, these are very much not Reputations. You see a Performer (from the discussion above) at a concert, you get a +4 reaction effect even without knowing who it is, as opposed to the +0 of a Technician with the same level of Musical Instrument (Violin) or whatever. This is what they represent. Being so much born for a given activity that observing it done is pleasant. There are other Reaction Bonuses in other Talents that behave differently and may represent other things, but the point is they work without necessarily being famous.
Most of the Talent Reaction bonuses come from colleagues. A Reaction bonus from people listening to your music is illegitimate. Someone with skill 12+levels of Talent and someone with skill 16 should be equally pleasant assuming the same music style and audience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
That's a good idea. (Though regarding haggling, I find you algorithm rather long for quick learning . . .)
Most of the steps aren't actually relevant most of the time. Take price of item. Add bonus from reaction and chosen penalty. Quick contest with that bonus/penalty. Winner gets margin of success and twice the chosen penalty as a percent discount.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
A consideration I have on the topic:
There is a certain disappointment in 'I have achieved maximum possible level of U, so I need to invest in V and/or W instead now'. Incidentally, this can happen quite easily with Reaction Modifier traits in RAW (e.g. [25] for maximum Charisma), but much harder with Attributes ([50] for maximum Per or Will alone); OTOH, attributes are less focused, and much of the comparisons risks being apples-to-oranges.
This is true, but it's also a fundamentally difficult problem. There's only so much a human can benefit from improved appearance.
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