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Old 09-17-2017, 05:35 PM   #15
Set
 
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Default Re: What is the best Magic system to use in a DF campaign?

Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
And that's OSR D&D in a nutshell, which is what DF does.
The new D&D is miles ahead of the old D&D. Reviving old school is bad. At least, as far as rules are concerned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
No. Because there is no way to 'balance' those spells.
I think it is quite possible, but indeed very hard to do. As I said, not completely balance, but at least partially so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
DF really screams out for Spells as Skills (Magic) or Effect Shaping (Path/Book) or Energy Accumulation (RPM/Incantation).
Spells as skills would be OK if they costed more investment in specific schools and if there weren't so many OP spells.

In fact, I prefer spell books and lists over shaping the world at will for wizards in a fantasy game. Sure, shaping is fun for an Avatar or Full Metal Alchemist kind of world, but for classic high fantasy settings, spell lists fit way better, in my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evileeyore View Post
You obviously do not follow the school of Enough Violence Solves All Problems.
This is very much true. And in a high fantasy setting even more so.
Always? No. But it's way, way harder to design fun and thrilling adventures - especially for high fantasy - that don't have very important combats.


Quote:
Originally Posted by David Johansen View Post
Also, why build an evil knight with a low willpower in a magical world? Similarly why wouldn't he have some magical protection or a wizard of his own? Equal access is a form of balance.
Problem is like, a henchman-level Apprentice can snuff a Knight stronger than an Adventurer in a single roll - not a lucky one, just a standard, average roll. This shouldn't exist, under any situation whatsoever.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Standard, out-of-the-box knights can have Fearlessness, which adds to Will "whenever you make a Fright Check . . . or roll to resist supernatural fear." Fear won't win against an evil knight. Neither will the typical HT-resisted one-shot-kills, like Entombment and Flesh to Stone – not with base HT 13, +1 to +6 more to HT, and Fit or Very Fit.
True enough. That was a bad example. But what I want to say is: unless you have specific protection against those one-shot spells, you have a good chance at being utterly destroyed by them, no matter how strong you are.
This would be completely realistic in a real world setting with Magic, but in High Fantasy the average apprentice out of the academy can't insta-gib an adventurer way more experienced, unless he gets very, very lucky.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Knights are mostly vulnerable to non-fear-based mind control, which is why the GM planning to use them as enemies should think about tossing a few points of advantage allocation and quirk payoff into those things – or just putting a Moly amulet around the knight's neck. If the Moly amulet works due to evil clerical magic that doesn't treat good people kindly, the PCs won't be so keen to see it as treasure . . .
This is my problem, having to counter specific threats with magical things. Again, in high fantasy those powerful guys can most of the times simply resist. Because of the Rule of Fun. It is anti-climatic to win the boss fight in a single spell.


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Originally Posted by Gnomasz View Post
If save or die spells in general are what you dislike (and not just cheap save or die spells), no system will really solve the problem: using Sorcery, you can build an Affliction-based save or die spell. If you aren't afraid of lots of tweaking, you might want to look into Pyramid #3/83, which has an article on applying Technical Grappling rules to possessions -- with some work, it might let you change any supernatural effect from save-or-die to a longer struggle. Be wary, though, it's just a random idea -- I haven't tried to use it that way. It might be clunky or just too much work.
Nice suggestion, but it seems clumsy to me on a first look. I'll tinker with it later and see if it works for me.


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Originally Posted by simply Nathan View Post
I think the standard skill-based magic is the best for wizards, but I don't like applying that system to clerics and druids. I always considered it a kludgy hack in D&D that clerics used the same basic magic system for their miracles that wizards do for their spells, so in GURPS I prefer Holy advantages like Higher Purpose, Faith Healing, True Faith, and Blessed(Heroic Feats), and the Divine Favor system.
I agree that divine magic should be completely different from arcane magic. However, IIRC all of those systems have those imbalances with save-or-die spells.
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