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Old 06-21-2014, 06:11 AM   #37
condor
 
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Default Re: Wait maneuver - differences from 3rd Edition

Quote:
Originally Posted by sir_pudding View Post
I don't think it's necessary. I find it useful. Really though it mostly will never come up, especially if you don't (as I gather most people don't) use the Tactical Combat rules at all.
I know that you can circumvent it through not using the Tactical System. Indeed, I use it very little.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D10 View Post
Rules aside, I have always played and GMed with steping and waiting being allowed and I think it makes the game better.
D10 said it in the beginning of the post. Grouchy Chris brought Kromm opinion. I agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grouchy Chris View Post
Here is what Kromm had to say about it. The gist: RAW does not allow a Step with Wait, but it's entirely reasonable to allow it anyway.
But the post itself started with two very specific problems, in Tactical System :

1) The slicing-the-pie: what maneuver to use?, and

2) Guy A closing in foe B in a three-yard-alley: By raw, if he Waits, and his foe stays put, he cannot walk; if he steps, he spends his maneuver and his foe can Move past him. It is not a minor problem. Basic Set dedicates a third of a page on it, but instead of solving it, makes the thing more confusing.


The conclusions I arrived, within this specific discussion are:

About the "Slicing the Pie" situation:

You could consider the Steps proposed in TS p. 24 as Move maneuvers, restricted by special rules, Attack without a target on a turn by turn basis, or Ready (or keep the gun ready) and step, also on a turn by turn basis. Even Step and Wait. It makes no big difference in TS terms. Ulzgoroth said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
it won't give you any ability to react to what you find, because you took a Ready maneuver rather than a Wait.
I disagree. The thing here is that Wait maneuver makes the player fell safer, because he is entitled to interrupt his foe's turn, and because it sounds coherent. But if both guys are paying attention, it ends up in the same either if both took step and wait, Attack, Ready or just steps: initiative will be disputed under special rules. The first to attack, or to react, is the one who wins. If one guy is Moving fast or Moving and Attacking, he has a penalty in this dispute. Only Opportunity Fire has true priority in this case.

In the case of the dead-end alley situation:


1) Using Wait maneuvers with different, alternating clauses. One of them is "if foe B falls within reach, I strike him" and the other "if foe B stays put, I walk". This would generate some suspense, because foe B could try to guess when to run, but as there is no clear definition of time (stays put for how long? a turn?), it is lame - probably not even raw. Besides, it creates a dangerous precedent when thinking about odd Wait clauses.

2) Using Tactical System under special rules, and, in practice, allow Step and Wait only in these situations.

3) Allowing Step and Wait always. As when you take a Step in advance in a Wait maneuver, in most cases, you are in a disadvantageous position because you are committed with a future maneuver, I think this is no big deal.

4) Allowing the player who took a Wait maneuver the possibility of taking a step in the case his triggering condition don't take place, in the end of the turn.

Last edited by condor; 06-21-2014 at 06:24 AM. Reason: s
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