I'm doing this off the cuff in real time and it's a WIP idea, so my apologies if I am not clearly and concisely articulating the concept. Trust me, you're doing great with kicking this around and it's appreciated. :)
I know what the rules state, however, I think Beaches are really just a Clear hex with up to six Beach hexsides. Which are really just Beach hexside overlays on Clear Terrain. Atm, we officially only have Clear Terrain with up to three Beach hexsides available as Tokens. These are called BEACH Terrain in the rules. What is proposed is to have Beach hexside overlays so players can make up to six hexsided Beach Terrain hexes...and also, if proven viable and complimentary to the game allow them to be used on Forest, Town and Rubble hexes. These would be hexside Beach overlays and full-size hex Beach terrain duplicating those so you wouldn't have to only use the hexside overlays. The hexside overlays would be easier to make and have a much smaller footprint than the full-hex Beach Terrain featuring up to six hexsides of Beach. Thus, you would want to make available more of those than the full-size Beach hexes featuring up to six hexsides of Beach.
The main suggestion is "Marsh". This is the same as Beach, but is only used with Swamp. However, this raises a question: Could Marsh hexsides be used in place of Beach hexsides "for looks", for example with a Forest or Town hex??? I'm thinking since Beach and Marsh are identical as far as the rules, only visually different, then yes. In this case, Marsh and the Terrain it is adjacent to would be mutually morphed into being the same levels as if the land level were equal to the Marsh water level. Where a Beach actually rises up slightly to meet the land Terrain. That would be the extreme edge case for Marsh though and explanation enough.
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Originally Posted by GranitePenguin
The marsh hexside is an interesting idea and would certainly fix the "problem". The only general issue I have with introducing another hexside terrain type is they are inherently fiddly and unused. In real life, the counters are annoying and get lost/move/whatever easily, and are a bear to work with or dig out of the box. They are so unpopular, SJG couldn't even give them away as a PDF (the streams PDF was reported to have very low download numbers).
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There is no other way of these being what they are in Chipboard, fiddly or not, that is what they are and they are used. Ideally, we would have a full hex Token for all the variations of these, but that would probably be beyond the scope of producing profitably.
Adding another or more does not change anything other than there would be more to fiddle or not with. I don't see any of these as being issues at all.
In the PC OGRE version, most of those fiddly or not pieces are also available and I am very glad to have them to use. They are what they have to be.
They could not give those Stream overlays away because they were not chipboard quality overlays, and you had to download and cut and paste and DIY. Most players would want a actual Chipboard sheet of those. Even as craft inclined as I am, I just didn't want to spend the time on the paper downloads...unless SJGs would actually sell the same chipboard board sheets they use for their token sheets as blanks, so we have the same quality chipboard (same thickness, ect), would I consider using those paper ones. But why not just make them available officially as chipboard tokens?
Related Suggestion: We need more Terrain overlays! Do up a bunch of Terrain specific sheets and include Stream and Marsh hexside overlays, and Forest/Beach, Town/Beach, Rubble/Beach fullhex tokens. ;)
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Originally Posted by GranitePenguin
The other problem I have with making a new type, is the question: how many hexside types do we actually need? I'd rather see a more general-purpose type that can be used in multiple places than one that can be used only in a specific case. That's how we got to where we are in the first place with beaches.
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All this is, is:
Beach hexside overlays usable with Forest, Town and Rubble Terrain.
Marsh, which acts the same as Beach hexside overlays.
I agree the Beach we have now keeps it basic, which is a good thing.
However, I am arguing for this because while it may seem trivial and do nothing but complicate the game uselessly and add more fiddly bits (I like fiddly bits!), to allow GEVs to have Terrain that causes them to stop before entering terrain AND also having Terrain that does not cause them to have to stop for the same turn before entering that Terrain is one of those rules that makes the game larger than the sum of it's parts.
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Originally Posted by TheAmishStig
As to whether we should...the best argument I have 'for' is "It doesn't necessarily hurt scenario designers", and you've already made the best argument against: "Fiddly bits can be a nightmare for scenario players"
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It actually helps scenario designers create more diverse and dynamic and fun games without adding useless complexity. The QUAGMIRE Scenario is my example. I have no doubt there are many other examples that can be found of how using these would be instrumental in a new scenario designs we have yet to see, otherwise not possible without using them.
The only thing I'm concerned about it may not be a good idea is that it only affects GEVs other than Marsh, which would act as Swamp except GEVs don't have to stop before entering. Is it worth making these only for those units?
If a scenario has no GEVs, then these are useless in those cases...yet that can be said of the Beach Terrain. Although aesthetically, even if no unit benefits from them, they would add a more visually appealing look to a map just like the new color variations we have of Terrain in the PC Game.
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Originally Posted by TheAmishStig
2.02.3 Marsh Hexsides: A mottled green/blue hexside represents a Marsh. Marshes are transition areas between Swamp and non-Swamp hexes with firmer ground, fewer obstacles, and shallower water. When entering a Swamp through a Marsh hexside, units susceptible to becoming Disabled or Stuck do so only on a roll of 1. Units disabled by failing that roll remain Disabled only on a roll of 1. In addition, GEVs may transition between Water and Swamp hexes through a Marsh without stopping, as per the rules for Beaches (2.01.9). Marshes appear only on Overlays, for use in Scenarios.
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I like the description here. To be clear is the transition between Water and Swamp hexes through Marsh hexsides? This sounds very good as only one Marsh hexside on a Swamp hex means the GEV could enter without stopping before entering, but could move no further that turn, where if there were additional Marsh sidehexes, those could be used to transition without stopping. I assume they would still have to roll for a Disable when transitioning?
Even if a Swamp hex had all of it's hexsides Marsh hexsides, it would still use the same transitioning rules outlined above.
Thanks for the continuing discussion. :)