[GodBeastX]

Originally Posted by Desthro

GURPS Magic as written can't be "fixed" because the underlying engine powering it is incredibly faulty and prone to abuse. It needs to be retooled and redesigned from the ground up.

Agree.

Originally Posted by Desthro

IQ+Magery
Nobody thinks that is okay once they've used GURPS Magic as-is.

A talent with 13+ related skills is 15 points. Yet magery is 10 points per level covering a massive amount of skills. Very iffy. On top of that Magery makes some of the skills utterly potent.

Originally Posted by Desthro

Magical Spells are not Skills
But they use the skill system! Sort of. Most of the skills in GURPS are broad and cover a large amount of knowledge or physical skill. The narrower the field, the EASIER the skill becomes. GURPS Magic is not this way; as you have noticed, you need to consolidate the skills in order to make them more appropriate. There are few skill-penalty analogues in GURPS Magic. And the ones that do exist, like he -1 per hex distance penalty, result in a heavy skewing towards spells that AREN'T reliant on distance. Like missile spells, pre-combat buffs, and spells that can be controlled at a distance but not CAST at a distance. There aren't "deceptive" casting techniques to make your resisted spell more likely to penetrate your subject's resistances, or "All-Out Concentration" maneuvers, or "Telegraphing" to make your spells easier to cast. And skill prerequisites. . .

This isn't necessarily true. P.39 in Thaumatology gives ideas how how to trade energy for enhancements, skill and other effects.

Originally Posted by Desthro

Where Are the Tools?
GURPS Magic had no tools or framework to teach you how to design your own spells or colleges. Worse, one can't even derive a consistent framework because the spells themselves are inconsistent from spell to spell, even between similar spells. What makes a spell VH as opposed to H? What is the difference between expending 1, 2, 3, or more energy? Why do some spells require more prerequisites than others? Why do I even NEED a prerequisite? None of the skills in GURPS have prerequisites. . . But I need them in GURPS Magic?

That's not complete true. Other skills in GURPS do have prerequisites. Magic did not introduce this concept.

Here's a list of skills with Prerequisite skills (Advantage prerequisites ignored): Aquabatics, Body Control, Engineer (And more on some specialties of it), Enthrallment, Flying Leap, Group Performance, Invisibility Art, Light Walk, Musical Influence, Pressure Secrets, Shiphandling, Submarine (Free-Flooding Sub), Surgery, Zen Archery.

Originally Posted by Desthro

Comparison to Advantages
People say you can't compare Advantages and Spells. Well, maybe not in terms of outright costs, but you CAN compare them in terms of the flexibility each one provides. Advantages have a huge advantage (heh heh) with the number of building blocks you have. You have the advantage list, enhancements, limitations, and the myriad ways they all interact accordingly. There is very little that you cannot create. Further, since it uses a well-documented set of tools, you can be reasonably assured that it is fair. Spells don't have that flexibility. They just don't, and they should have from the get go.

I agree that it's nebulous, but much of what is GURPS Magic is 3E carry overs from that magic system and Grimoire book. In fact, some spells are basically copied word for word and missing tables that the 3E books have.

That being said, I'm not really a fan of Advantages as magic either because I think certain traits are over priced for modifiers and underpriced for others. I also think that the Limitations and Enhancements interact poorly with one another, especially when building afflictions (One of the building blocks of magic). Multiplicative modifiers helps a bit with this as an optional rule, but it's clunky to fit into some situations.

I much prefer RPM but that system has the flaw of generalist being far too advantageous. There's some ideas how to fix this, but I haven't chosen my favorite method of fixing this since my players stopped being interested in magic recently.

Originally Posted by Desthro

I am sure there is more, a lot more. It needs retooled. It won't be, probably not for a very, very, very long time. But I imagine that it will someday.

I don't think it will be. Other magic systems are already being written. Sorcery, RPM and who knows what else will appear. Thaumatology book pretty much gives endless ideas for possible magic systems. Really, GURPS Thaumatology should have been named "GURPS Magic" and the current GURPS Magic should have been a sub book of GURPS Thaumatology.

That would follow more of a 4E design schema. Instead it's very 3E where 3E Fantasy was a specific setting, and Magic is a specific magic system. In 4E nebulous concept books tend to be tools for building a genre. Fantasy 4E is about building your own fantasy world. Space is about building your own space setting. So Magic should be about building your own magic system. Sub books should focus this creativity to specific genres.