Steve Jackson Games Forums - View Single Post

Skarg · 01-10-2018, 11:42 AM

IMO, I think you both have made good points:

I quite understand and mostly agree with Ty's principals of reducing "friction" and feeling-like-TFT, at least for non-optional rules for a new edition of TFT. I imagine we might have different ideas about how serious which issues are, and about which mechanics are satisfying or not.

I also quite agree with larsdangly that TFT would be a stronger game if it had better defense rules.

When our group stopped being satisfied with TFT combat after 5 or so years of steady play and started redesigning, some of the main issues we wanted to address were about defense:

* Competent highish-point-total fighters almost always hit.
* Also almost none of them could avoid being hit except by knocking out opponents first.
* The Defend option was very rarely useful to win a fight since it takes your whole turn and allows no attack. And it only adds 1 die regardless of who's defending with what.
* Armor was stacking (with shields, warrior/veteran, stone/iron flesh, etc) so high that many opponents weren't threats to many well-equipped people.
* We also noticed that the shield and left-hand weapon parry mechanics didn't seem to represent how they ought to work at all, and on their own (without other armor) were weak effects (though a welcome better-than-nothing for 1-handed weapon users) that couldn't entirely block any but the weakest attack, which felt inaccurate.

Then GURPS Man To Man appeared and handled most of what we wanted, only with elegance and playtesting. However, it took some years of play by analytical realism/detail-oriented type players before we got to that point.

I feel like there are probably some clever mechanics that could remain suitably fast, simple, and TFT-like, that would address the defense issues. Depending on what those end up being, and how much people really want the original Melee system, they could be advanced or optional rules. (Or, if something really great comes up, they could be the new official rules, and the original rules could be listed as an option... just an idea.)

01-10-2018, 11:42 AM	#15
Skarg Join Date: May 2015	Re: TFT Defense IMO, I think you both have made good points: I quite understand and mostly agree with Ty's principals of reducing "friction" and feeling-like-TFT, at least for non-optional rules for a new edition of TFT. I imagine we might have different ideas about how serious which issues are, and about which mechanics are satisfying or not. I also quite agree with larsdangly that TFT would be a stronger game if it had better defense rules. When our group stopped being satisfied with TFT combat after 5 or so years of steady play and started redesigning, some of the main issues we wanted to address were about defense: * Competent highish-point-total fighters almost always hit. * Also almost none of them could avoid being hit except by knocking out opponents first. * The Defend option was very rarely useful to win a fight since it takes your whole turn and allows no attack. And it only adds 1 die regardless of who's defending with what. * Armor was stacking (with shields, warrior/veteran, stone/iron flesh, etc) so high that many opponents weren't threats to many well-equipped people. * We also noticed that the shield and left-hand weapon parry mechanics didn't seem to represent how they ought to work at all, and on their own (without other armor) were weak effects (though a welcome better-than-nothing for 1-handed weapon users) that couldn't entirely block any but the weakest attack, which felt inaccurate. Then GURPS Man To Man appeared and handled most of what we wanted, only with elegance and playtesting. However, it took some years of play by analytical realism/detail-oriented type players before we got to that point. I feel like there are probably some clever mechanics that could remain suitably fast, simple, and TFT-like, that would address the defense issues. Depending on what those end up being, and how much people really want the original Melee system, they could be advanced or optional rules. (Or, if something really great comes up, they could be the new official rules, and the original rules could be listed as an option... just an idea.)