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Old 01-03-2019, 11:12 AM   #2
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default Re: GURPS Supers Alternatives

From KYOS and using the baseline that everything expands at the same rate with a log progression such that:
ST 20 BL 200 lbs Thr 3d
ST 30 BL 2000 lbs Thr 5d+1 (~Spidey's ST)
ST 40 BL 10 ton Thr 8d (~Thing/Colossus ST)
ST 60 BL 1k ton Thr 13d (Superman recent movie)

Here's what a few basic book weapons look like (nothing below 4d is affected):
TL6 Concussion Grenade was 6d, now 4d+1
TL7 Concussion Grenade was 10d, now 6d
TL7 Frag Grenade was 8d[3d], now 5d+1[3d]

Assault Rifle was 5d, now 4d+1
Hunting Rifle was 7d, now 5d
Sniping Rifle was 9d+1, now 5d+2

ATGM was 60d(10d), now 10d+1(10)
SAM was 18d, now 7d+1
HMG .50 was 13d+1, now 6d+2

Bazooka was 6dx2(10), now 6d+1(10)
RPG was 6dx3(10), now 7d+1(10)
LAW was 6dx6(10), now 9d+1(10)

You can also rescale the animals, vehicles, and armor in other books either using KYOS rules or this:
Old ST/DR 20 now 16
Old ST/DR 30 now 20
Old ST/DR 40 now 22
Old ST/DR 60 now 26
Old ST/DR 80 now 28
Old ST/DR 100 now 30
Old ST/DR 150 now 33
Old ST/DR 250 now 38
Old ST/DR 500 now 44
Old ST/DR 1k now 50

You get a very cinematic, very playable 4 color world. It's basically what film, TV, and Supers play like.

For stacking (since these are log values):
Use highest and add +3 for equal values, +2 if they are within 1 or 2 lower, +1 with 3-5 levels, +0 otherwise.

DR 20 + 20 (layered/cover) = DR23 for protection.
DR 20 + 19 (layered/cover) = DR22
DR 20 + 16 (layered/cover) = DR21
DR 20 + 14- (layered/cover) = DR20 (no benefit).

It also helps explain why a character (dragon? Super?) with good DR won't bother with armor. There's marginal benefit and only if it's nearly as tough as the character.

Here's a bigger table of values:

    Log ST values (ST / base Thrust dmg / BL / Example)
ST  THR     BL                     Example
16  2d  	BL 80 lbs	        Comic Captain America (~800 lb max)
20  3d  	BL 200 lbs	        Movie Captain America (~1 ton max)
30  5d+2  	BL 1 ton	        Spider-Man (~10 ton max)
40  8d  	BL 10 tons	        Thing/Colossus (~100 ton max)
50  10d+2	BL 100 tons	
60  13d	BL 1k tons	
70  15d+2	BL 10k tons	Superman (Movie)?
80  18d	BL 100k tons	Superman (Modern Comic)?

   Log Weapons:
Weapon	                        Old	        New
Black Powder Grenade	3d	        3d
TL6 Concussion Grenade	6d	        4d+2
Frag Grenade	                4d[2d]	4d[2d]
TL7 Concussion Grenade	10d	        6d
TL7 Frag Grenade	        8d[3d]	5d+1
Rifle	        5d	        4d+1
Rifle	        7d	        5d 
Sniper	9d+1	5d+2
ATGM	60d (10)	10d+1
SAM	        18d	        7d+1
HMG .50	13d+1	6d+2
Under-barrel Grenade	 (no change)
Bazooka	12d(10)	6d+1(10)
RPG	        18d(10)	7d+1(10)
LAW	        36d(10)	9d+1(10)

  DR / Dmg quick conversion chart
ST/DR/Dmg 	(above 10)
Old	                New
10 (3d-1)	        10 (3d-1)
13-14	        13 (4d-1)
15 (4d+1)	        14 (4d)
16-17 (4d+2)	15 (4d+1)
18-20 (5d)	16 (4d+2)
25 (7d)	        18 (5d)
35 (10d)	        21 (6d)
50 (14d+1)	23 (6d+2)
100 (29d)	        30 (8d+2)
200 (57d)	        37 (10d+2)
500 (142d)	44 (12d+2)
1000	                50
1200	                52
1500	                53
10k	                70
100k	                90
I tried to convert this to a better looking table, but std table BB codes aren't working. Suggestions?

Anyway, you can see this is much different progression that makes Spidey punch 2.5x harder than a human in peak condition (ST16 being around peak), and putting the Thing over 50% more damage than Spidey before you consider his rocky exterior (perk for hand strikers). Superman would do well over double the damage the Thing as well. As for taking damage, Spidey, the Thing, and Superman all have HP values that are compatible with the damage they do (mirror match up) and, percentage wise, they also take damage in proportion. If you look up my thread on Archetype vs Archtype in Supers, you'll see the difference. These characters won't run out of fatigue (SuperST) swinging and don't need to rely on IT:DR to avoid being misted by insane damage ratios. They will also compare favorably against the military (soldiers, tanks) without having scores in the hundreds or thousands.

Supers example tank: Tank: Loaded weight 50 tons; 185 HP; DR 1,200 (front and turret), 100 (other surfaces)
Converted to log values: Tank, 50 tons, HP 58 (by weight as per KYOS), DR 52 (front/turret), 30 (other surfaces). Spidey can't really hurt or lift it under normal circumstances. Thing/Colossus can punch through the lighter armor or lifting/throwing/flipping before attacking the weaker points (which tracks well with comic versions of that matchup) . Superman could punch through the front armor if necessary, though it will take a few blows to cripple it that way. He can easily rip into the sides. Alternatively, they could also take advantages of the rules Supers to rip off chunks (ST vs DR contest for damage).

For the equipment comparison, you'll see that Spidey strikes harder than most rifles now. I figure if you can lift and throw a car, you'll probably punch hard enough to do that sort of damage.

Last edited by naloth; 01-11-2019 at 06:59 PM.
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