[Paul]

Originally Posted by Azog

I'm quite stunned that you would say this. Not because I'm a fanboy for BGG, but rather that you would be so casually dismissive of something as potent as BGG for marketing, or determining publishing decisions.

Their ratings don't match my sales numbers. I'd hardly call that "casually dismissive." Personally, I'd love for BGG to be a grand predictor; it'd make my job a far sight easier.

Originally Posted by Azog

Secondly, I'm stunned that you would be so dismissive of the feelings of the fans of SJ Games products. You've done this time and time again here on the forums. I can even go as far as saying that you have been openly contemptuous towards our opinions.

Just for the record, I define dimissive as; "feeling or showing that something is unworthy of consideration." I only define this so that there is no mis-understanding in what I am saying.

I'm afraid I'm continuing to misunderstand. How does my finding a lack of relationship between BGG's ratings and my sales reports have anything to do with Ogre fans?

As for "openly contemptuous," I apologize for any indication I've given in that direction. I'm not certain what statements could be characterized as such, but that interpertation is far from the truth. As you may know, one of my first positions within Steve Jackson Games was Ogre Line Editor, as well as Miniatures Division Manager.

Originally Posted by Azog

Sales statistics for the game industry is notoriously lacking in up-front sales figures, so even for a "marketing director" like you, Paul, this information is impossible to find. So it's equally impossible to say, with the certainty that you seemed to possess in your assertion, that BGG ratings have "virtually no relationship to the sales of a product". I can't say that either.

Actually, I can. I'm looking at a report right now which tracked sales by dollars for January - October 2006 (it happens to be left on my desktop, so it's handy).

Car Wars doesn't rank in the top 100 items; the card game (the best selling product of the line) accounts for 2/10s of a percent of the YTD sales. Yet on BGG, as you point out, as their server seems to be down this moment, ranks it at circa 1200. Munchkin, the game itself, not the line, ranks at circa 1600, yet accounts for 14% of our total sales. Remember, that's just the original game, not the line. Deluxe Illuminati is ranked circa 750, yet accounts for around 3% of our sales.

So yes, I can say with a high degree of confidence that BGG ratings do not have a solid relationship to the sales of Steve Jackson Games products.

Originally Posted by Azog

The Russian Campaign has long been considered a wargaming classic, much like Ogre/GEV. However, it has -long- since gone out of print. Or, actually it used to be out of print. L2 Design Group revised and reprinted The Russian Campaign. Now, the original TRC sits at rank 254, and the L2 revision sits at 638, as of this writing.

What can this tell me about sales? What it can tell me is that a lot of people liked TRC, and a lot of people like the L2 revision of TRC. How much of a leap can it be for this to translate into sales for L2?

I don't know; I don't have access to L2's sales records.

Originally Posted by Azog

What it really tells me is that the L2 Design Group saw that people loved the product, and places like ConSim World and BGG reflected that. But they knew that they couldn't just re-release the older version. They knew that by taking a loved but out-of-print product, bringing it's rules, mechanics, and art up to date, that they could sell this to a modern market, and capitalize on the buzz that this out-of-print title has generated.

I agree. In particular, I agree that Ogre/G.E.V should not be simply re-released. The rules should be clarified and unified, the components should be given an upgrade, and a line of support should be planned. However, there's only one man I'd trust to do that job, and he's also the designer creating Munchkin. (He's also wearing the Editor in Chief hat, and sharing duties with the Production Manager/Print Buyer.)

Look, Ogre is SJ's baby, his first release. Ross, our Sales Manager, is a lead-pusher from way back. My first major responsibility in the company was Ogre. We'd all love to see Ogre (and Car Wars) returned to print, and succeed in a major way. However, the numbers (our income vs. our staffing levels) simply aren't in support of such a move at the moment.