Steve Jackson Games Forums - View Single Post - Using the Pathfinder Kingdom Building rules with GURPS

Jürgen Hubert · 09-24-2014, 11:18 AM

Sadly, GURPS doesn't really have any rules for running a nation (though those would probably be far too complex anyway), so those of us who want to do something like this have to resort to other rules.

In my campaign, I plan on using the Kingdom Building rules for Pathfinder, which have the advantage that they are available for free online. My goal was not to convert these rules to GURPS, but to provide an "interface" between the two systems - so the charcters will be GURPS characters, but whenever rules matters move to the Kingdom level we'd be using the Pathfinder rules.

One important interface concerns the "roles" in the government of the nation. Normally, each role gives boni to one or more "kingdom attributes", depending on a specific attribute modifier of the character filling the role (as well as a lesser bonus from an appropriate proficiency). Since GURPS is a skill-based system, I decided to base these bonuses on the character’s skills instead.

It works like this: Each role has three associated skills. For the purpose of calculating kingdom attribute boni, the character picks the best of the three skill. If the role is filled by an NPC (which is likely - there are too many roles for them to be all filled by player characters), or the player is absent, then the bonus depends on the skill level - a +1 bonus for each two skill levels above 10 (i.e. +1 for a skill level of 12, +2 for 14, and so forth).

For (present) player characters, the bonus is calculated each month anew based on a skill roll:

Critical Failure: The role suffers the penalty for being “unoccupied”, and Interesting Things happen.
Ordinary Failure: +0
Success: +1 bonus, with a further +1 for each 2 points of Margin of Success.
Critical Success: +3 on top of the bonus for an ordinary success.

The roles and their associated skills are:

Ruler: Administration, Leadership, Politics
Consort: Diplomacy, Public Speaking, Savoir-Faire (High Society)
Councilor: Current Affairs (Own Nation), Politics, Propaganda
General: Savoir-Faire (Military), Soldier, Strategy
Grand Diplomat: Current Affairs (other nations), Diplomacy, Intelligence Analysis
Heir: Diplomacy, Public Speaking, Savoir-Faire (High Society)
High Priest: Propaganda, Public Speaking, Theology
Magister: Administration, Research, Teaching
Marshal: Area Knowledge, Intelligence Analysis, Law
Royal Enforcer: Criminology, Law, Interrogation
Spymaster: Cryptography, Intelligence Analysis, Streetwise
Treasurer: Accounting, Economics, Market Analysis
Viceroy: Administration, Leadership, Politics
Warden: Criminology, Law, Streetwise

Note: I intend to add two skills to each of these lists, and turn them into a Talent appropriate for each role. Do you have any suggestions on what skills to add?

For conversion purposes, each Build Point is equal to 4,000 gp… which is equal to 40,000 GURPS $/silver pieces.

Not included in the original campaign are salaries - the PCs draw salaries depending on their Wealth levels and pay according to their Social Status. The ruler of the smallest nation should probably start out as Social Status 2 (town mayor), and the characters with other roles should likely have a Social Status one level lower. In my campaign, I gave the PCs an additional 10 points in the Wealth advantage, and Social Status for free - and the non-ruler PCs got additional character points to spend on social advantage to compensate for their lower status. Each player could decide whether they wanted their wages to be “formal” (i.e. fixed monthly income) or “informal” (i.e. variable monthly income). Their job roll is based on the lowest of their three role-associated skills.

The players also asked me if they could fill out two rolls at once at the beginning of the game if they spent 14 day each month on running things, instead of 7 like the rules suggest. I allowed this, but enforced a -1 penalty for each hex grid field (defined as a hex with a distance of 10 miles from side to side) the nation has, which means that if they expand they will want to hire some additional guys in a hurry.

Finally, to encourage their megalomaniac tendencies, I promised the players one additional character point for each 2 hex grid fields they incorporate into their nation, to be spent on social advantages only (including Wealth).

What do you think of this conversion?

09-24-2014, 11:18 AM	#1
Jürgen Hubert Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Oldenburg, Germany	Using the Pathfinder Kingdom Building rules with GURPS Sadly, GURPS doesn't really have any rules for running a nation (though those would probably be far too complex anyway), so those of us who want to do something like this have to resort to other rules. In my campaign, I plan on using the Kingdom Building rules for Pathfinder, which have the advantage that they are available for free online. My goal was not to convert these rules to GURPS, but to provide an "interface" between the two systems - so the charcters will be GURPS characters, but whenever rules matters move to the Kingdom level we'd be using the Pathfinder rules. One important interface concerns the "roles" in the government of the nation. Normally, each role gives boni to one or more "kingdom attributes", depending on a specific attribute modifier of the character filling the role (as well as a lesser bonus from an appropriate proficiency). Since GURPS is a skill-based system, I decided to base these bonuses on the character’s skills instead. It works like this: Each role has three associated skills. For the purpose of calculating kingdom attribute boni, the character picks the best of the three skill. If the role is filled by an NPC (which is likely - there are too many roles for them to be all filled by player characters), or the player is absent, then the bonus depends on the skill level - a +1 bonus for each two skill levels above 10 (i.e. +1 for a skill level of 12, +2 for 14, and so forth). For (present) player characters, the bonus is calculated each month anew based on a skill roll: Critical Failure: The role suffers the penalty for being “unoccupied”, and Interesting Things happen. Ordinary Failure: +0 Success: +1 bonus, with a further +1 for each 2 points of Margin of Success. Critical Success: +3 on top of the bonus for an ordinary success. The roles and their associated skills are: Ruler: Administration, Leadership, Politics Consort: Diplomacy, Public Speaking, Savoir-Faire (High Society) Councilor: Current Affairs (Own Nation), Politics, Propaganda General: Savoir-Faire (Military), Soldier, Strategy Grand Diplomat: Current Affairs (other nations), Diplomacy, Intelligence Analysis Heir: Diplomacy, Public Speaking, Savoir-Faire (High Society) High Priest: Propaganda, Public Speaking, Theology Magister: Administration, Research, Teaching Marshal: Area Knowledge, Intelligence Analysis, Law Royal Enforcer: Criminology, Law, Interrogation Spymaster: Cryptography, Intelligence Analysis, Streetwise Treasurer: Accounting, Economics, Market Analysis Viceroy: Administration, Leadership, Politics Warden: Criminology, Law, Streetwise Note: I intend to add two skills to each of these lists, and turn them into a Talent appropriate for each role. Do you have any suggestions on what skills to add? For conversion purposes, each Build Point is equal to 4,000 gp… which is equal to 40,000 GURPS $/silver pieces. Not included in the original campaign are salaries - the PCs draw salaries depending on their Wealth levels and pay according to their Social Status. The ruler of the smallest nation should probably start out as Social Status 2 (town mayor), and the characters with other roles should likely have a Social Status one level lower. In my campaign, I gave the PCs an additional 10 points in the Wealth advantage, and Social Status for free - and the non-ruler PCs got additional character points to spend on social advantage to compensate for their lower status. Each player could decide whether they wanted their wages to be “formal” (i.e. fixed monthly income) or “informal” (i.e. variable monthly income). Their job roll is based on the lowest of their three role-associated skills. The players also asked me if they could fill out two rolls at once at the beginning of the game if they spent 14 day each month on running things, instead of 7 like the rules suggest. I allowed this, but enforced a -1 penalty for each hex grid field (defined as a hex with a distance of 10 miles from side to side) the nation has, which means that if they expand they will want to hire some additional guys in a hurry. Finally, to encourage their megalomaniac tendencies, I promised the players one additional character point for each 2 hex grid fields they incorporate into their nation, to be spent on social advantages only (including Wealth). What do you think of this conversion? __________________ GURPS Repository • Sunken Castles, Evil Poodles - translating German folk tales into English!