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-   -   Independent Innate Attack (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=147079)

Shaun 11-23-2016 05:46 PM

Independent Innate Attack
 
Please check me on this,:

I have an Innate Attack.
I get an Extra Attack, Single Skill (Innate Attack).
I give that attack Independent at either the 40%, or 70% level (you tell me which is appropriate).

Now, can I opt to use this independent attack as a parry?
If so, can I also attack in the same round, or do I have to choose between attack and defense?
If both, then do I apply the negative modifiers for multiple attacks/parries in one turn, or not since it's independent (maybe not if it's at the 70% level)?

If this build can't parry, how do I go about building a Point Defense System? Even better if it can attack as well...

Thanks.

Ulzgoroth 11-23-2016 06:08 PM

Re: Independent Innate Attack
 
How can you give an Innate Attack the Independent enhancement? The basic meaning of the Enhancement is: "This enhancement is for advantages that require concentration to control. Your ability demands no attention after the initial Concentrate or Ready maneuver to activate it." Innate Attack doesn't require concentration to control.

(You could probably use it with an Area Effect Persistent Mobile Innate Attack, but that's not really relevant to what you're trying to do.)

None of this build makes sense, honestly.

A point defense system is not something GURPS handles especially well, but you'd basically need a dedicated Compartmentalized Mind and some way of convincing your GM that aiming and attacking with the PD Innate Attack is a mental action.

Nereidalbel 11-23-2016 06:09 PM

Re: Independent Innate Attack
 
What are you using Independent for? If your Innate Attack has the Melee modifier and you do NOT take the extra discount for Cannot Parry, it can parry as if it were a weapon. And barring a Requires Ready limitation, you are free to attack and parry in the same turn.

Anaraxes 11-23-2016 06:39 PM

Re: Independent Innate Attack
 
Extra Attack is not Extra Defense, nor Extra Maneuver or Extra Turn (ATR). "Each Extra Attack allows one additional attack per turn." That's lower-case "attack", not an Attack Maneuver. There are various ways to get more than one attack in a turn. Attacks aren't Active Defenses. RAW seems straightforward enough: no.

Kromm's suggestion in the uFAQ for "Extra Defense" is to use Extra Arm:
Quote:

Extra Arm 1 (Force Extension, +50%; Shield Mount, -80%) [7]
since each additional hand gets you one additional parry or block. This build does not, of course, insist on there being an actual additional general-purpose hand on the creature.

I'd probably even let you take Extra Attack and Extra Defense as AAs if you could only use one of the pair per turn.

Shaun 11-23-2016 07:14 PM

Re: Independent Innate Attack
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel (Post 2059844)
What are you using Independent for? If your Innate Attack has the Melee modifier and you do NOT take the extra discount for Cannot Parry, it can parry as if it were a weapon. And barring a Requires Ready limitation, you are free to attack and parry in the same turn.

It's not a melee attack, it's a ranged attack. I was trying to simplify things by using generalities, but here is the specific case:

I have a Holy Warrior with an innate attack (gaze), which does burning damage, that we're calling Holy Light. We gave him a halo which actually fires this holy bolt.
The initial concept was to create a point defense system that acted independently of my character and could intercept an attack 360 degrees around my character. The hope was that making it independent would also mean that it would continue to work as defense, even if my character does an all-out attack (and vice versa as an attack during an all-out defense).

Refplace 11-23-2016 07:17 PM

Re: Independent Innate Attack
 
Chiming in on the "No" camp.
For an easy Point Defense I would likely go with.....
ATR (Single Skill (Innate Attack), -20%; Only Attack Maneuvers, -50%; -70%) [30]

EDIT Saw the Halo post.
For that I might go with another option I have used which is Duplication (One form Only, -20%) and possibly add gadget if the Halo is an item.
Than build an Alternate Form. This will typically cost more points than the ATR method but lets you be more flexible. In this case you could give the Halo AF 360 Vision and possibly other traits.

Varyon 11-23-2016 08:19 PM

Re: Independent Innate Attack
 
I've mentioned it before (and I think I'm going to go ahead and make a thread for it), but I'm personally fond of the idea of repurposing IT:DR so that instead of dividing injury by some fraction, it gives a % chance of making an attack miss outright. Using something like that might work for you.
(EDIT: Thread can be found here)

Nereidalbel 11-23-2016 08:36 PM

Re: Independent Innate Attack
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun (Post 2059866)
It's not a melee attack, it's a ranged attack. I was trying to simplify things by using generalities, but here is the specific case:

I have a Holy Warrior with an innate attack (gaze), which does burning damage, that we're calling Holy Light. We gave him a halo which actually fires this holy bolt.
The initial concept was to create a point defense system that acted independently of my character and could intercept an attack 360 degrees around my character. The hope was that making it independent would also mean that it would continue to work as defense, even if my character does an all-out attack (and vice versa as an attack during an all-out defense).

You would want Reflexive, not Independent. You'll need Missile Parry as a Technique to use it against ranged attacks, and a 50% Cosmic if you want it to work against attacks you're unaware of.

Christopher R. Rice 11-23-2016 10:16 PM

Re: Independent Innate Attack
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun (Post 2059838)
Please check me on this,:

I have an Innate Attack.
I get an Extra Attack, Single Skill (Innate Attack).
I give that attack Independent at either the 40%, or 70% level (you tell me which is appropriate).

Now, can I opt to use this independent attack as a parry?
If so, can I also attack in the same round, or do I have to choose between attack and defense?
If both, then do I apply the negative modifiers for multiple attacks/parries in one turn, or not since it's independent (maybe not if it's at the 70% level)?

If this build can't parry, how do I go about building a Point Defense System? Even better if it can attack as well...

Thanks.

No. Just...no. That's not even remotely balanced.

Shaun 11-24-2016 03:07 AM

Re: Independent Innate Attack
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nereidalbel (Post 2059887)
You would want Reflexive, not Independent. You'll need Missile Parry as a Technique to use it against ranged attacks, and a 50% Cosmic if you want it to work against attacks you're unaware of.

Reflexive says that if your're asleep, successful activation also wakes you up. That implies to me that it wouldn't need 50% Cosmic for attack I'm unaware of. It says -4 to activation though, so I would think that that's the penalty to the parry roll. Same price cost as Independent, but it actually does exactly what I'm looking for.
Thanks!


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