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-   -   Segmented Plate - Pyramid Low Tech II what am I missing? (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=151943)

sir_pudding 09-24-2017 06:03 PM

Re: Segmented Plate - Pyramid Low Tech II what am I missing?
 
Having reread it, I am a little confused as to what it is for relative to Low-Tech.

DanHoward 09-24-2017 06:18 PM

Re: Segmented Plate - Pyramid Low Tech II what am I missing?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyndaran (Post 2124947)
If you have read it, I would very much like your input on how to adjust it to match what you know of real history and armors.

I've skimmed through the article but have no use for it. The rules in Low-Tech work fine for me.

Flyndaran 09-24-2017 07:01 PM

Re: Segmented Plate - Pyramid Low Tech II what am I missing?
 
That's probably best for me too. It's not like I can't adjust to fit what I think of history and personal setting assumptions.
I just sometimes rediscover an article or supplement and dive into trying to make use of it.
Thanks everyone for trying to help even with my mangling of the title.

Tomsdad 09-25-2017 12:28 AM

Re: Segmented Plate - Pyramid Low Tech II what am I missing?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyndaran (Post 2124935)
So it seems like the simplest way to make these rules agree with reality a bit more would be jacking up mail's price, lowering segmented plate's price, ....

Yep and in terms of matching LT probably upping Scale's CW as well.

Tomsdad 09-25-2017 12:35 AM

Re: Segmented Plate - Pyramid Low Tech II what am I missing?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sir_pudding (Post 2124952)
Having reread it, I am a little confused as to what it is for relative to Low-Tech.

I don't think it is directly related to LT beyond suggesting you can use some of the options from LT. From the text box "Compatibility With Low-Tech":


These rules are designed to work with the Basic Set without
needing Low-Tech, but they can also be used with the
armor rules in Low-Tech.
To do this once the armor is designed, feel free to add any
customizing options from Low-Tech. The only options that
should not be included are those that relate to construction or
material qualities already covered implicitly in the design formula,
such as the use of materials like stone, bronze, or wood,
or the use of cheaper or more expensive quality materials.


I.e you can take some options from LT and apply it to stuff you create in the article e.g tailoring. But overall they are separate systems (and likely created under different rationales and assumptions)

sir_pudding 09-25-2017 02:18 AM

Re: Segmented Plate - Pyramid Low Tech II what am I missing?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomsdad (Post 2124994)
I don't think it is directly related to LT beyond suggesting you can use some of the options from LT. From the text box "Compatibility With Low-Tech":


These rules are designed to work with the Basic Set without
needing Low-Tech, but they can also be used with the
armor rules in Low-Tech.
To do this once the armor is designed, feel free to add any
customizing options from Low-Tech. The only options that
should not be included are those that relate to construction or
material qualities already covered implicitly in the design formula,
such as the use of materials like stone, bronze, or wood,
or the use of cheaper or more expensive quality materials.


I.e you can take some options from LT and apply it to stuff you create in the article e.g tailoring. But overall they are separate systems (and likely created under different rationales and assumptions)

Sure but what is it for? Why would I want to use it?

Tomsdad 09-25-2017 03:21 AM

Re: Segmented Plate - Pyramid Low Tech II what am I missing?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sir_pudding (Post 2125001)
Sure but what is it for? Why would I want to use it?

Oh right gotcha

It's a pretty easy design system for armour, so if you want to design armour from scratch for a game it's great for that.

To be honest since it has all the variables in the process spilt out it's very simple to adjust them to tailor to individual preferences. e.g. you want to make scale armour heavier per DR than the article has it (and closer to the scale stats in LT) just increase the CW* stats for scale. You think mail should be more expensive per DR increase mail's CC*.

Where I do think it's really good is in giving basic DR ratings for different materials that give proportionally different results. LT tends to have them as absolute amount modifiers e.g Hardened steel is +1 DR in all circumstances (but then there may well be a reason for that)

Ultimately the LT system and article system go about things in different ways using different design methods.


Personally I like because it allows me to scale DR with users ST and body type, in a similar way that melee weapon damage is scaled with the users ST.

However that's not a criticism of LT, I gather the spec of various tech books is to give examples of certain things and add some modifiers, rather than give us fully fledged design systems which is beyond the remit of the book!




*sorry these are values that come into the calculation as multipliers, CW = Construction Weight, CC = Construction Cost

chandley 09-25-2017 10:01 AM

Re: Segmented Plate - Pyramid Low Tech II what am I missing?
 
That article is one of three armor design rule articles that unifies armor design from TL 0 to TL 12. It does not start with the same kinds of assumptions that Low-Tech does. I like the 3 systems because it avoids the Low-tech to High-tech Steel DR weirdness (try figuring out a good armor choice for AtE using Low-tech, High-Tech, and Ultra-Tech....). I use it for my DF campaign, but I don't let players build armor, I built sets that are available, and they choose from what the blacksmith they are at has available or can make to order.

That said, the Segmented Plate option doesn't have a home really. If you have Iron or Steel, scale or mail options are better choices from TL 1-3. If you have Bronze, Plate is the better option. It is meant to represent historical options for plate made from smaller plates, and about the only niche would be resisting crushing damage with cheaper Good Iron in the TL 1-3 range rather than very expensive Good Bronze. I skipped it, and I think OP, you should too, or redo the seg plate cost factor to represent its role in the market.

David is on the boards, you could try a PM to him, see what his intentions were.

Mailanka 09-25-2017 10:04 AM

Re: Segmented Plate - Pyramid Low Tech II what am I missing?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DanHoward (Post 2124954)
I've skimmed through the article but have no use for it. The rules in Low-Tech work fine for me.

But for those of us who do have use for it, do you have any suggestions for better values?

DanHoward 09-25-2017 04:50 PM

Re: Segmented Plate - Pyramid Low Tech II what am I missing?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mailanka (Post 2125088)
But for those of us who do have use for it, do you have any suggestions for better values?

I don't see the point investing that sort of time in something I'm never going to use.


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