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-   -   Segmented Plate - Pyramid Low Tech II what am I missing? (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=151943)

Flyndaran 09-24-2017 01:43 PM

Re: Segmented Plate - Low Tech II what am I missing?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DanHoward (Post 2124878)
Mail was the preferred type of armour by almost every metal using culture on the planet for the best part of two thousand years. Even when plate was available and cheaper than mail we still have many examples of people preferring to wear mail.

Okay, so I should just remove segmented plate from every single game, because Coats of plate and brigandine would only be taken by roleplayers that intentionally spend extra money for less protection?

That doesn't seem right unless we seriously jack up the price of mail in comparison to that of segmented plate and hypothetical not in this article late TL 3 brigandine.
I think you've implied similar. Please correct me if I'm wrong about that.

Flyndaran 09-24-2017 01:45 PM

Re: Segmented Plate - Low Tech II what am I missing?
 
Please read the thread title, guys. I'm not talking about Low Tech the big book, just the article in Pyramid Low Tech II.

Tomsdad 09-24-2017 03:13 PM

Re: Segmented Plate - Low Tech II what am I missing?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyndaran (Post 2124913)
Please read the thread title, guys. I'm not talking about Low Tech the big book, just the article in Pyramid Low Tech II.

Did wonder about the II! (maybe put Pyramid in the title if you still can?)

Ironically I use those armour design rules but didn't cite them in earlier post because it seemed we were talking about LT!

Anyway my answer is still basically the same as my first post, sometimes not every option was available everywhere during a GURPS TL. TL2 is 1800 years that is a very long time after all.

Take mail, now we know mail was a great armour that was widely used by many and was also in use for a long time, way past the end of GURSP TL2! But even mail wasn't automatically suddenly in use everywhere from 1200BC onwards (even if its use rapidly spread).

Personally I think if you want to get an idea of where segmented plate fitted into all this. Look to see who used it, how it suited their use and system*, what else was being used at the time that they interacted with, and what their response was to that in terms of preference. Sometimes in life you have to make suboptimal choices even if you know there's a better one and it's theoretically available. A brief look at the history of military procurement will show you some suboptimal choices!

One of the factors especially will vary by time and place (especially a period of time 1200 BC to 600 AD), and that's cost

But yeah as is, in an abstract side by side comparison on a table it looks bit out of place


However Segmented and Scale have changed a bit in the pyramid article compared to LT, but you can adjust weight & cost pretty easily to get the balance you want.



tl;dr; the article is a list of armour options and a system for building armours out of them, I don't think it set out to balance armour options against each other, or maintain niche protection.

*which may not all fit into GURPS armour stats

sjard 09-24-2017 03:14 PM

Re: Segmented Plate - Pyramid Low Tech II what am I missing?
 
<Mod> Edited the thread title for clarity.

Flyndaran 09-24-2017 04:07 PM

Re: Segmented Plate - Pyramid Low Tech II what am I missing?
 
Thanks. I didn't realize that I was titling things so vaguely.

sir_pudding 09-24-2017 04:12 PM

Re: Segmented Plate - Pyramid Low Tech II what am I missing?
 
Low Tech Companion 2 is a thing...

Flyndaran 09-24-2017 04:15 PM

Re: Segmented Plate - Pyramid Low Tech II what am I missing?
 
So it seems like the simplest way to make these rules agree with reality a bit more would be jacking up mail's price, lowering segmented plate's price, and creating an advanced version for coats of plate / brigandine.
That way it would be competeable with mail in some way.
I suppose by the time they came about, small plates could be more cheaply and quickly made allowing them to compete in price if not mass/DR ratios to mail.

That would create the "problem" that only those with money get proper metal armor. But that is far more easily dealt with in game and setting if that's what one wants.
Makes it an awesome reward for service at least.

Flyndaran 09-24-2017 04:16 PM

Re: Segmented Plate - Pyramid Low Tech II what am I missing?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sir_pudding (Post 2124933)
Low Tech Companion 2 is a thing...

Yeah, I really thought I put either the word article or Pyramid in my title. I accidentally a word there. ;)

DanHoward 09-24-2017 04:40 PM

Re: Segmented Plate - Pyramid Low Tech II what am I missing?
 
I did not realise you were just talking about that article. I had nothing to do with it. Had I written it, it would have been based off completely different assumptions.

Flyndaran 09-24-2017 05:15 PM

Re: Segmented Plate - Pyramid Low Tech II what am I missing?
 
If you have read it, I would very much like your input on how to adjust it to match what you know of real history and armors.


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