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-   -   [Basic] Frustrated by Tentacles (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=163993)

CarrionPeacock 06-06-2019 01:02 PM

[Basic] Frustrated by Tentacles
 
What's the 2019 updated way of handling tentacles? Older books uses Extra Arms (Extra-Flexible) but that's wrong, Extra Arms assumes a human arm, and a tentacle alone is not nearly as dextrous as human hands. Searching the forum I've seem many suggestions like using foot manipulators, applying No Fine Manipulator bonus to it, treat each 5 tentacles as an arm (each tentacle is a finger), treating tentacles as allies, etc etc. I couldn't find it, but has there ever been some consensus on this subject?
While we're at it, does Invertebrate affect grappling? Does an octopus with invertebrate use only 1/4 of its ST?

Refplace 06-06-2019 01:08 PM

Re: [Basic] Frustrated by Tentacles
 
I go with Extra Arms in most cases but you can use Ham Fisted if you want them clumsy. Suction cups are the hard part in my opinion. I desperately wanted them in Technical Grappling.

ericthered 06-06-2019 01:40 PM

Re: [Basic] Frustrated by Tentacles
 
I haven't seen any consensus.

I like to consider most realistic tentacles to be both extra-flexible and short: If you observe octopi manipulating objects with any sort of weight they like to use the middle of their tentacle, not the tip, and they hold things by curling around them. Such structures are able to do very complex things with the tip of the limb, but this tends to be with light objects and specialized motion.

I also think that hands are often more amazing than we give credit for, and I count octopi as having the equivalent of four arms, not eight. That gives us a [20] point build in all, rather than the traditional [100].

I admit that this is being generous to the octopus, but as you mentioned, its easy to overpay for tentacles. Though its worth noting that cinematic tentacles are worth more than the version I described above.

AlexanderHowl 06-06-2019 02:27 PM

Re: [Basic] Frustrated by Tentacles
 
Tentacles are useful though, giving a +3 to grappling for each tentacle and allowing for use of multiple one-handed and two-handed weapons. A race with four extra tentacles could weld two polearms, two shields, and would gain a +12 to grappling, which is worth 60 CP. With two medium shields and two polearms, the character could attack every turn with a polearms and block two attacks per turn without penalty. Oh, and Brawling, Boxing, Judo, and Karate give one parry per arm, so martial artist could parry six attacks per turn without penalty.

ericthered 06-06-2019 03:11 PM

Re: [Basic] Frustrated by Tentacles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl (Post 2267366)
Tentacles are useful though, giving a +3 to grappling for each tentacle and allowing for use of multiple one-handed and two-handed weapons. A race with four extra tentacles could weld two polearms, two shields, and would gain a +12 to grappling, which is worth 60 CP. With two medium shields and two polearms, the character could attack every turn with a polearms and block two attacks per turn without penalty. Oh, and Brawling, Boxing, Judo, and Karate give one parry per arm, so martial artist could parry six attacks per turn without penalty.

If the tentacle has the range of motion, leverage, strength and reach to wield those weapons and shields. Its my judgement that realistic tentacles generally don't have those qualities. Cinematic tentacles are a different matter, but you should be prepared to pay for such limbs if you're allowed to use each one as a full arm. And your GM should be prepared to let you have those full abilities.

As a note, each extra arm is +2 to all grappling, not +3. The +3 only applies to the grappler with the most limbs when a pin is attempted.

AlexanderHowl 06-06-2019 03:36 PM

Re: [Basic] Frustrated by Tentacles
 
Sorry, but that is still +8 to grapples or four extra parries a turn or two shields and two two-handed weapons for 60 CP (assuming Extra Arm 4 (Extra-Flexible, +50%)). Extra Arms is well worth the points for the extra four parries and/or blocks per turn. This is especially useful when you consider that the character could use a polearm and four medium shield simultaneously.

One question that I would have though would be how much DB would four medium shields provide when wielded by four extra-flexible extra arms? Would it be +8 to all defenses? How would you deal with such a turtle, especially in a fantasy world?

ericthered 06-06-2019 04:00 PM

Re: [Basic] Frustrated by Tentacles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl (Post 2267376)
Sorry, but that is still +8 to grapples or four extra parries a turn or two shields and two two-handed weapons for 60 CP (assuming Extra Arm 4 (Extra-Flexible, +50%)). Extra Arms is well worth the points for the extra four parries and/or blocks per turn. This is especially useful when you consider that the character could use a polearm and four medium shield simultaneously.

Yes, if you spend 60 points on four extra arms with extra-flexible you gain a huge advantage in combat, whether when striking or dueling. My objection is that an cephalopod with 6 limbs shouldn't be spending 60 points, and shouldn't have the awesome advantages you outline above. Not unless you're treating tentacles cinematically.

vicky_molokh 06-07-2019 12:26 AM

Re: [Basic] Frustrated by Tentacles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Refplace (Post 2267353)
Suction cups are the hard part in my opinion.

They'll likely be available Soon™.

Refplace 06-07-2019 01:00 AM

Re: [Basic] Frustrated by Tentacles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh (Post 2267445)
They'll likely be available Soon™.

I think thats a hint at Template Toolkiit 2: Races which I already was eager for seeing the Signaling advantage. This makes me even more eager for it.

AlexanderHowl 06-07-2019 07:04 AM

Re: [Basic] Frustrated by Tentacles
 
I think that Suction cups could be modelled as an increase in Grip ST [1 CP/level]


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