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(E) 04-10-2016 03:02 PM

Re: [ATE] Farming example
Bunkertech Beverage(tm) despenser.*
"Have you thought what you'll do on those quiet evenings while you're waiting for the all clear to sound? Well think no more! Introducing the Bunkertech Beverage(tm) despenser. Simply fill with basic white algae, your favourite flavour cartridges and you can enjoy a drink with your Bunkertech meal" the image on the TV screen shows a smiling crowd at a dinner party.
- 30 beverages(tm) a week.
-- Beer flavoured
-- wine flavoured (both kinds, red and white)
- 1 meal (tm) of white algae
- water
- power
- weekly cleaning.
- artificial flavour
- Yeast starter
Frequently jury rigged to make something more potent.

Bunkertech Junior Beverage(tm) despenser

A smaller unit that acts like a soda maker and can also produce sweet tasting gelatinous beverages.
- Soda
- CO2
- water
- flavourings
- 10 Shakes (tm)
- 1 meal (tm) of light brown algae
- 1 meal (tm) of Purple algae

*research shows shelters with a Beverage(tm) despenser have a 60% increase in endurance before RTC**

**Resort To Canabalism

tshiggins 04-10-2016 09:43 PM

Re: [ATE] Farming example

Originally Posted by (E) (Post 1996850)
Whaler's Bay


- Netting
- Containers
- Possibly salt
- Tools

This example may merit a reexamination with a few of the assumptions changed, the results may be quite different.

This is really good. As I noted, before you posted, I'd think cook-fires would be perfectly okay for a couple of hours a day, and even a kiln in a remote location (and concealed in a cave, or under an overhang) might be fine, a lot of the time.

I like the need for camouflage netting, and containers for long-term storage. You'd need to cache food, as it ripens, and the semi-nomadic nature of the lifestyle would mean you couldn't carry everything with you, all the time.

Salt is very important as a preservative, but if it was a coastal forest, that wouldn't be too tough to get. It's a different story up in the Appalachians, though.

tshiggins 04-10-2016 09:46 PM

Re: [ATE] Farming example

Originally Posted by chandley (Post 1996883)
Honey bees would be really good for this setup. You can spread them out in "log" hives (like African beekeepers use), they are low maintenance, and they will help the various fruit trees quite a bit. And honey can be used to preserve fruits and meat.

I agree. Bees hive in lots of different places, and those African log hives are an elegant addition.

tshiggins 04-10-2016 10:04 PM

Re: [ATE] Farming example

Originally Posted by nicebrian (Post 1996957)
Thanks (E) these are awesome, a great starting point for me to adjust for my own games.

IŽd be interested in your ideas for a desert/dry setting, very Mad Max style.

Oasis agriculture is actually a thing. It uses layered tree canopies to make maximum use of the real estate in close proximity to the water source, and sometimes irrigation ditches to bring the water out out to walled (to keep the sand out) grain fields. My understanding is that it works best in tropical or subtropical latitudes, because date palms are key to success, and those don't grow in temperate climates.

Date palms planted the windward side of the water source help keep out blowing sand, while others planted throughout the area provide an important canopy for other fruit tries.

Beneath the canopy provided by date palms, oases usually have olives, apricots and/or lemons (maybe other citrus fruits, as well...). Beneath that additional shade, the inhabitants plant vegetables, or just have grass or fodder plants.

Cereal grains are the biggest challenge, I understand, although if the area has winter rains, one can grow wheat, barley or millet, and supplement meager rainfalls with irrigation.

I think the major constraint is the presence of a consistent and reliable groundwater supply, and whether or not enough rain falls in the winter to allow the growth of cereal grains. Maize would probably do okay, if the oasis water supply was large enough to irrigate, I think.

AlexanderHowl 04-10-2016 11:06 PM

Re: [ATE] Farming example
The biggest threat to oasis agriculture is that people will cut down the trees, exposing the oasis to the wind and sand. After a few months, the oasis is covered by sand unless it is shielded by geological formations. It is one of the reasons why the Sahara and Kalahari Deserts are growing in Africa. The other two reasons are over grazing by herds and the extinction of the mega fauna that evolved to maintain the plains and forests.

(E) 04-11-2016 12:39 AM

Re: [ATE] Farming example

Originally Posted by chandley (Post 1996883)
Honey bees would be really good for this setup. You can spread them out in "log" hives (like African beekeepers use), they are low maintenance, and they will help the various fruit trees quite a bit. And honey can be used to preserve fruits and meat.

The person who has beehives in his orchard, head desks.

I'll write up the Inland subcanopy farming with fire included, any other assumptions to include?

I have another couple of other examples to work through first though.

Edit Regarding dry conditions, other farming types/locations would include cloud harvesting from the west coast of South America, cistern systems, cold dry climates as well. Australian billabong plant life would be worth a look too.

tshiggins 04-11-2016 08:07 PM

Re: [ATE] Farming example

Originally Posted by (E) (Post 1997043)
The person who has beehives in his orchard, head desks.

I'll write up the Inland subcanopy farming with fire included, any other assumptions to include?

I have another couple of other examples to work through first though.

No other assumptions, and take your time, there's no hurry. This is kind of a back-burner thing that could very well prove useful, in my Facets campaign. :)

Bruno 04-12-2016 04:58 PM

Re: [ATE] Farming example

Originally Posted by (E) (Post 1995979)
The Bunkertech units are a fallout inspired equipment selection for a 1960s TL8 or 9. With no yeast or gluten the Buns (tm) would be at best like a stale mcdonalds basic hamburger bun. Think of the cheapest bread available.

Your usual options for gluten free bread-like substitutes are dense and crumbly (like a badly-made cake), wet and rubbery (until it dries and turns brittle), cracker-like, or bordering on rock-like (like, well, crackers, or a ships biscuit). Pure cornbread with no wheat is pretty dense and crumbly (but nice and moist), many of the non-grain "flours" make cracker stuff, and rice can end up in either form.

There are some fairly convincing "breads" - they need guar gum and mad science to make, I'm pretty sure they're TL8 or even early TL 9 cookery.

AlexanderHowl 04-12-2016 06:24 PM

Re: [ATE] Farming example
There are a few secret brands that are better than real bread. There is a place in Syracuse, NY that has the best bread, gluten-free or otherwise, that I have had, and Toomy's in Strongsville, OH has the best pizza I have had, gluten-free or otherwise. I agree, however, that most of them are quite bad still.

(E) 04-13-2016 02:20 AM

Re: [ATE] Farming example
Northgate Mall

- Mad Max type end, change in local climates, more arid weather.
- Mature TL 8 End
- 2 generations and 40+ years since the End (this is standard for the examples so far)
- 100 shop mall, two storied building, glass roofed atrium with five glass roofed corridors.
- Due to random bureaucratic reasoning the store is quite well built
- No reliable annual rain
- Soil while slightly toxic can support some hardy plants.


- Health food shop, supermarket, gym, big box store with garden centre, health food store, pet store with aquariums, book stores, big box car parts store, big box hardware store, big box sports store.

- Northgate is a glass roofed mall that has been partially converted into a huge green house.
- An example of a fortress garden that is not going so well.
- Mirrors on the roof increase the “day” for the plants inside
- Water poor
- Would work as a fortress type structure, possibly taken over by a violent group who are holding the locals as slaves.
- Might work as a Base of operations for the PC's to own and improve.
- Has a high level of infrastructure but not necessarily a high level of education. They did have a book store though. None of the original population of Northgate had any practical experience with farming.
- The use of a wind turbine and solar panels have allowed refrigeration.
- The other resources at Northgate make it a valuable location
- the gardening supplies from the big box store(s) have allowed the community to last this long but they are running out.

You cross the vacant and sand scoured car-park, it is obvious that this is an ideal killing ground for uninvited guests. Hardy plants are visible here and there in the old drainage zones. The roller cage lifts allowing you access into dark interior. You almost have to crawl though the stacks of car parts to make it through the door into the open and brightly lit atrium. The brightness and humidity come as a shock and you stand open mouthed as you stare up at the huge plants. “they're called trees” a voice calls out.

- The old aquarium has been converted into a water purification and recycling system. The main problem is that it does not process water very quickly.
- Acidic rainwater
- Several tanker trucks serve as water storage tanks.
- Car park run off is collected and used as a reserve water source, it requires pumping by hand to get into the storage tanks.

The orchards are well developed and cared for, however the people doing lacked proper training and the harvest has suffered as a result. The pre End irrigation systems have been largely maintained. The trees are grown in raised beds. Primarily apples, plums and pears.
- 250m of wide glass roofed atrium, 0.25 Hectares
- The garden center, 0.2 Hectares
- Some single trees planted under skylights
- To maximize space and minimize plant damage some orchard work is performed from hanging gantries.
- Where the sun permits the fruit trees are grown along the wall.
- Mirrors are used through out to maximize light.

To start with there was a wide range of crops at Northgate, in the years since the end a great deal of the variety has been lost, remaining are beans, sweet potato, beetroot, radishes, tomatoes, garlic and herbs. The soil has become too acidic and is suffering from imbalanced nutrients and persistent fungal blight. The excessive use of chicken manure and fish bones are the main culprits as they have resulted in a phosphorous overabundance.
- 0.5 Hectares of “new” green house like structures on the roof
- Pot plants inside windows

Outside crops
The health of the exterior plantings is low but trial and error have resulted in the following plants surviving. The edible yields are low and most is used for animal feed. Unbeknownst to the residents the limestone in the base of the car park is counteracting some of the acid from the rain.
- Pseudo Cereals, amaranth, quinoa
- Agave, aloe
- Prickly pear

The possibility also exists for goats to be grazed in the vicinity, however they need to acquire goats first. The existing populations of animals are beginning to suffer from inbreeding.
- Guinea pigs
- Bantam hens
- Worms
- Fish

Other types of farming

- Algae farming in this case spirulina has failed due to the water being too acid.
- Poor thermal control has led to the failure of mushroom production.

Poor farming knowledge, soil maintenance and inbreeding have reduced the yields considerably. 8 tonnes of food are produced annually from the orcharding and associated plantings. 5 further tonnes are produced from other interior plantings. 2 and a half more tonnes of food are produced with from exterior crops and livestock. This feeds 22 people, which is less than it used to. The ability to refrigerate food is essential to their survival.
A skilled farmer, chemist and scavenger could turn the production around. The soil could be improved and the blight lessened with better rotation, soil conditioning (possible with lime and/or rockdust), anti-fungal treatment (possibly sulfur, possibly from gypsum) and an experienced farmer(TL7+) should pick up broadly what minerals are out of balance.

Proper knowledge would be able to quadruple the food output of Northgate, A scavenger and chemist could probably get these numbers higher again. They would certainly make the systems more robust. Improved genetics and a greater range of crops would have large benefits as well. It is theoretically possible to produce 125 tonnes of fruit and 40 tonnes of other vegetables from the orcharding system with complete replanting and TL 8 techniques and insecticides etc. If Northgate's production was diversified and brought up to TL 8 standards it could conceivably support up to 280 people.


- No real food surplus, likely running at a loss
- Cider
- Animal feed/desperation food
- Crossbows and melee weapons
- Service industry, have the books and parts for mechanical work.

- Car parts
- Hardware
- Mall misc

- Help
- Water purification components
- Fungicidal products
- Sulfur, Epsom salts are a possible source
- Potash (Potassium deficient system), greensand is a possible source.
- The list goes on
- Means of neutralizing acid
- Bees

Skills present

- Engineering, mechanical and electrical
- Brewing
- Metal work

- Good, Chicken and garlic cooked in cider served on a sweet potato puree with green beans.
- Typical, guinea pig stew with beans and tomatoes. Eggs and sweet potatoes.
- Its edible, Prickly pear and worms

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