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-   -   Phylacteries and Dissolve Enchantment? (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=164367)

RVA_Grandpa 07-01-2019 12:49 PM

Phylacteries and Dissolve Enchantment?
 
In the Tomb of the Wizard-King liches are described in detail. One of the keys to killing a Lich is to destroy its phylactery. It is easier to destroy the phylactery if you can remove the 'magical armor' that protects it from the 4 hits of damage inflicted.

The Dissolve Enchantment spell is suggested. In the spell description (ITL p 31) it says that the spell cost is 100 ST for a greater magic item and 50 ST for a lesser magic item. So here is the question:

What type of magic item would the phylactery be considered?

Asking for a friend...

MikMod 07-01-2019 12:56 PM

Re: Phylacteries and Dissolve Enchantment?
 
Can I extend this to ask what the cost is to use Dissolve Enchantment against Shapeshift, which it is also listed as the 'cure' for, but with no clear ST cost implication?

zot 07-01-2019 01:14 PM

Re: Phylacteries and Dissolve Enchantment?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RVA_Grandpa (Post 2271822)
In the Tomb of the Wizard-King liches are described in detail. One of the keys to killing a Lich is to destroy its phylactery. It is easier to destroy the phylactery if you can remove the 'magical armor' that protects it from the 4 hits of damage inflicted.

The Dissolve Enchantment spell is suggested. In the spell description (ITL p 31) it says that the spell cost is 100 ST for a greater magic item and 50 ST for a lesser magic item. So here is the question:

What type of magic item would the phylactery be considered?

Asking for a friend...

Liches are very serious business. A lich's phylactery would definitely be a greater magic item but possibly even more powerful than that, if that is possible.

Here are a few thoughts...

Perhaps becoming a lich requires at least one greater wish. In that case, a greater wish might possibly counteract the transformation, unless the transformation "completed" and not "maintained" by the wish. Perhaps it would require both Dissolve Enchantment and a greater wish to "unravel" a lich's phylactery.

RVA_Grandpa 07-01-2019 03:04 PM

Re: Phylacteries and Dissolve Enchantment?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zot (Post 2271830)
Perhaps becoming a lich requires at least one greater wish. In that case, a greater wish might possibly counteract the transformation, unless the transformation "completed" and not "maintained" by the wish. Perhaps it would require both Dissolve Enchantment and a greater wish to "unravel" a lich's phylactery.

On page 2 of the Tomb of the Wizard-King it says:
Quote:

All liches have a phylactery – an amulet, ring, crown, or similar valuable – that keeps their spirit anchored to their physical form. It must be kept on the lich’s person at all times. If it is lost, the lich cannot heal or regain lost ST in any way. If the phylactery is destroyed, the lich will crumble to dust.
Destruction of a phylactery is not easy. Phylacteries are protected by the same magic that sustains the lich. No matter the material of which they are made, they have a minimum ST of 20 and are protected from the first 4 hits of damage inflicted, as if they were magically armored. A Dissolve Enchantment spell will remove the protection from a phylactery and make it as vulnerable as any ordinary object, but this spell requires a lot of ST and high-level wizardry.
I don't see the need for a greater wish. Once the armor enchantment is removed with the dissolve enchantment spell, the phylactery can be destroyed like "any normal object."

It may be that the spell needs 100 ST instead of 50. I don't know, which is why I asked.

Chris Rice is the author. Maybe I need to ask him directly.

Skarg 07-01-2019 04:49 PM

Re: Phylacteries and Dissolve Enchantment?
 
(I have cast the Summon Christopher Rice spell.)

It's only 4 armor though - you could just keep hammering it.

Open Tunnel only costs 10 ST, too. ;-)

Christopher R. Rice 07-01-2019 09:01 PM

Re: Phylacteries and Dissolve Enchantment?
 
It absolutely is meant to be a greater magic item. As others have noted liches are no joke and that was the intent when I made them for TFT.

zot 07-02-2019 03:46 AM

Re: Phylacteries and Dissolve Enchantment?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RVA_Grandpa (Post 2271846)
On page 2 of the Tomb of the Wizard-King it says:


I don't see the need for a greater wish. Once the armor enchantment is removed with the dissolve enchantment spell, the phylactery can be destroyed like "any normal object."

It may be that the spell needs 100 ST instead of 50. I don't know, which is why I asked.

Chris Rice is the author. Maybe I need to ask him directly.

Ah, I haven't read Tomb of the Wizard-King. I thought you were talking about using D&D liches in TFT.

Tywyll 07-02-2019 05:59 AM

Re: Phylacteries and Dissolve Enchantment?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice (Post 2271897)
It absolutely is meant to be a greater magic item. As others have noted liches are no joke and that was the intent when I made them for TFT.

4 points of armor thought doesn't seem particularly tough though? I mean, does it heal or anything? A broadsword could kill one in 7 hits on average.

Christopher R. Rice 07-02-2019 06:07 AM

Re: Phylacteries and Dissolve Enchantment?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tywyll (Post 2271941)
4 points of armor thought doesn't seem particularly tough though? I mean, does it heal or anything? A broadsword could kill one in 7 hits on average.

Assuming you've downed the lich, that works as intended. I mean, I'm all for having super phylacteries where it stops double normal hits and/or has extra ST equal to the mana that was in it. Or perhaps having it so that it *heals* 1 hit per second. Or even all three. The point of a lich is to make it tough to kill and it should feel like an accomplishment to do so.

Tywyll 07-03-2019 08:57 AM

Re: Phylacteries and Dissolve Enchantment?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice (Post 2271942)
Assuming you've downed the lich, that works as intended. I mean, I'm all for having super phylacteries where it stops double normal hits and/or has extra ST equal to the mana that was in it. Or perhaps having it so that it *heals* 1 hit per second. Or even all three. The point of a lich is to make it tough to kill and it should feel like an accomplishment to do so.

I guess I'm not seeing how this version of phylactery makes the lich hard to take down? I mean, doesn't this version require they wear it on their person and if so... kill the monster, cast 'smash' from your broadsword, profit. It doesn't feel particularly difficult.

If they could hide it, then its a problem.


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