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-   -   Demons, teleport, and engagement (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=164082)

zot 06-10-2019 05:33 AM

Demons, teleport, and engagement
 
Can a demon move without restriction when it's engaged?

It sounds like a clear "yes" to me but the RAW would seem to imply "no"?

Tywyll 06-10-2019 06:59 AM

Re: Demons, teleport, and engagement
 
Since you can shift out of engagement I don't know why you can't teleport out.

larsdangly 06-10-2019 08:44 AM

Re: Demons, teleport, and engagement
 
Another relevant precedent might be found in the recent discussion on these boards about flyers and engagement. The rules don't tell you exactly what happens when a flying figure wants to disengage, but it is clear that they are a special case because they can avoid engagement in the first place at will. One suggested ruling is that if they are engaged (on the ground or in the air), they can use the disengage action to get airborne, after which you can't engage them unless they want you to. Another suggestion was that they are free to move away during movement phase. Another that they are just like everyone else once engaged, and their special ability to avoid engagement only applies when they are in the air and not yet engaged. So, dealer's choice.

In this case I'd say a demon is free to depart engagement using its teleport power. If a humanoid spell caster did this he or she would have to wait until the action phase when the spell could be cast. But RAW seems to suggest that teleportation of demons takes place for free and in place of a normal movement, so I'd let them just go for it in the movement phase.

larsdangly 06-10-2019 08:46 AM

Re: Demons, teleport, and engagement
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tywyll (Post 2267986)
Since you can shift out of engagement I don't know why you can't teleport out.

You normally can't shift out of engagement in the movement phase; you need to use the Disengage action later in the turn. And then you can move 1 hex in any direction, unbound by the limitations put on a 'shiftt'

Tywyll 06-10-2019 09:53 AM

Re: Demons, teleport, and engagement
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by larsdangly (Post 2268009)
You normally can't shift out of engagement in the movement phase; you need to use the Disengage action later in the turn. And then you can move 1 hex in any direction, unbound by the limitations put on a 'shiftt'

Are you sure? I was reading the shifting rules last night and all it said was you needed to remain adjacent to the target of your shift, not that you had to stay within engagement. It seems ridiculous that two people can circle an opponent to get a better vantage.

MikMod 06-10-2019 10:06 AM

Re: Demons, teleport, and engagement
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tywyll (Post 2268020)
It seems ridiculous that two people can circle an opponent to get a better vantage.

Unless I misunderstand, that's exactly what two people would do with one target so that their foe cannot face both at once.

If you are engaged in the movement phase then you can shift around person A, from say a front hex to a side hex, but if that means you are moving away from person B, and they are engaging you, then you can't do that, you can just turn. So yes, you can get pinned by two people, and if you are moving first, you better pick one and face them full on, or you won't have a target (terrain permitting)!

zot 06-10-2019 10:56 AM

Re: Demons, teleport, and engagement
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tywyll (Post 2268020)
Are you sure? I was reading the shifting rules last night and all it said was you needed to remain adjacent to the target of your shift, not that you had to stay within engagement. It seems ridiculous that two people can circle an opponent to get a better vantage.

You are correct. Turn 4 on page 128 has an example of this. The troll shifts and reverses facing and then Heniochus, who is engaged by the troll, shifts from one of the troll's front hexes to its side hex.

[EDIT] You can also shift onto a person you are engaged with to initiate HTH even if you are also engaged with other opponents.

larsdangly 06-10-2019 10:58 AM

Re: Demons, teleport, and engagement
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tywyll (Post 2268020)
Are you sure? I was reading the shifting rules last night and all it said was you needed to remain adjacent to the target of your shift, not that you had to stay within engagement. It seems ridiculous that two people can circle an opponent to get a better vantage.

Ah, I see what you mean; you are imagining a situation where you are engaged by a foe but can shift one hex to face their side hex side. Yes, you are right; in that case you can shift out of engagement. I thought you were picturing 'shifting' away from the foe.

RobW 06-10-2019 01:01 PM

Re: Demons, teleport, and engagement
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by larsdangly (Post 2268008)
RAW seems to suggest that teleportation of demons takes place for free and in place of a normal movement, so I'd let them just go for it [disengage] in the movement phase.

I like this. It would make demons much more dangerous. As in, if they win initiative and make the other side go first, they should then be able to teleport to and attack from a position of complete safety, and with a nice facing bonus. If they lose initiative, maybe they should just teleport to some other dimension for a turn. Pop back a few seconds later.

zot 06-10-2019 01:27 PM

Re: Demons, teleport, and engagement
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RobW (Post 2268070)
I like this. It would make demons much more dangerous. As in, if they win initiative and make the other side go first, they should then be able to teleport to and attack from a position of complete safety, and with a nice facing bonus. If they lose initiative, maybe they should just teleport to some other dimension for a turn. Pop back a few seconds later.

Yes that's actually how I ran the lesser demons when my player was farming lesser wishes when the players lost initiative. Unfortunately a lesser demon is absolutely no match for two summoned 7-hex dragons.


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