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-   -   Cloak TL? (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=168240)

pgb 04-12-2020 11:33 AM

Cloak TL?
 
This is really picky, I know...

In Basic, a cloak is listed as TL1 (p275 in the Muscle-Powered Ranged Weapon table, p287 in the Shield Table). In Low-Tech, it is listed as TL0 in the clothing section (p99) which mentions its use for a Block; costs and weights don't quite match either.

I'm not sure of the best interpretation. One would be that at TL0, cloaks exist and can be used to Block, but aren't well enough made to gain the other benefits of a shield (i.e Defensive Bonus) or to permit grappling, until TL1.

I'm trying to stay as close as possible to RAW for a particular project...

Thanks,

Paul.

zoncxs 04-12-2020 12:06 PM

Re: Cloak TL?
 
Yeah, I just looked at everything and you are right that nothing is consistent. I would ignore the pricing and weights on page 99 of Low-tech, especially since the stats on page 75 don't reflect those weights.

I would stick with the stats in basic set since those numbers appear everywhere else. I would use the bits about heavy cloaks having DR 1 vs cutting and allowing the use as an arrow curtain (page 104 low-tech).

Say, it isn't that bad! 04-12-2020 12:25 PM

Re: Cloak TL?
 
My understanding: The Basic Set was made to be playable by most anyone who'd play GURPS. Low-Tech was made to be playable by most anyone who'd play GURPS in a low-tech setting and wanted more accurate info.

Where Low-Tech conflicts with the Basic Set, Low-Tech is almost certainly more correct, being the specialized product.

zoncxs 04-12-2020 01:55 PM

Re: Cloak TL?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Say, it isn't that bad! (Post 2318618)
My understanding: The Basic Set was made to be playable by most anyone who'd play GURPS. Low-Tech was made to be playable by most anyone who'd play GURPS in a low-tech setting and wanted more accurate info.

Where Low-Tech conflicts with the Basic Set, Low-Tech is almost certainly more correct, being the specialized product.

The problem is that Low-Tech conflicts with itself with this.

Page 76 of Low-Tech shows the price for the Cloaks as $50 for Heavy, and $20 for Light (The weights are 5 lbs and 2 lbs), but on page 99 of Low-Tech we have cost being 10% cost of living and weighs 2 lbs for a light cloak, and a heavy one being 15% and weighing 3 lbs.

David Johnston2 04-12-2020 02:00 PM

Re: Cloak TL?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pgb (Post 2318608)
This is really picky, I know...

In Basic, a cloak is listed as TL1 (p275 in the Muscle-Powered Ranged Weapon table, p287 in the Shield Table). In Low-Tech, it is listed as TL0 in the clothing section (p99) which mentions its use for a Block; costs and weights don't quite match either.
.

<shrug> I don't see the problem. One of them is a TL1 cloak and the other is a TL 0 cloak. The difference would be the materials and craftsmanship.

zoncxs 04-12-2020 02:22 PM

Re: Cloak TL?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by David Johnston2 (Post 2318636)
<shrug> I don't see the problem. One of them is a TL1 cloak and the other is a TL 0 cloak. The difference would be the materials and craftsmanship.

The problem is that the TL0 cloak cost more and weighs less than the TL1 cloaks.

Stormcrow 04-12-2020 03:08 PM

Re: Cloak TL?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zoncxs (Post 2318635)
The problem is that Low-Tech conflicts with itself with this.

So they copied the Basic Set table without revising it for the new description of cloaks. If you want generic cloaks, use what's in the Basic Set. If you want cloaks appropriate to Status, use Low-Tech page 99.

zoncxs 04-12-2020 04:37 PM

Re: Cloak TL?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zoncxs (Post 2318611)
....

I would stick with the stats in basic set since those numbers appear everywhere else. I would use the bits about heavy cloaks having DR 1 vs cutting and allowing the use as an arrow curtain (page 104 low-tech).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormcrow (Post 2318639)
So they copied the Basic Set table without revising it for the new description of cloaks. If you want generic cloaks, use what's in the Basic Set. If you want cloaks appropriate to Status, use Low-Tech page 99.


And we have come full circle, I hope you all enjoyed the ride!

Varyon 04-14-2020 07:24 PM

Re: Cloak TL?
 
I'd be tempted to disregard the TL, price, and weight from LT76 (it contradicts the more in-depth text on LT99, and is clearly copy-pasta'd from BS), instead using the TL, price, and weight from LT99. Note the price and weight from the table match up decently well with the Light Cloak from LT99, if you assume Status right between -1 and -2 (a Status -1 Light Cloak costs $30, a Status -2 Light Cloak costs $10). If using Damage to Shields, I'd probably treat the cloak as though it were Layered Cloth covering the Forearm (only) of equal weight (the DR 1 vs cut of the Heavy Cloak is for when you're wearing it normally). A single Forearm is 1/8th the weight of Torso armor, so multiply weight by 8. For the Light Cloak, that's 16 lb, right between the 12 lb of DR 2 and 20 lb of DR 3; call it DR 2 (or maybe DR 3/2, first number against cut only). For that Heavy Cloak, that's 24 lb, right between the 20 lb of DR 3 and 28 lb of DR 4; call it DR 3 (or maybe DR 4/3, first number against cut only).


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