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-   -   bending stereotypes (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=145799)

Irish Wolf 09-13-2016 09:30 AM

Re: bending stereotypes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jason taylor (Post 2038913)
A bartender who is utterly incompetent at mixing but pretends he has invented a new drink thereby. He is not a knowledge broker but the cops ask him questions to make him feel important.

"Charlie, you know we just wasted ten minutes, right? That bartender didn't know nothin'!"

"Didn't know nothin' this time, rook. Usually doesn't. But when he does know somethin', it's solid friggin' gold. 'S why I keep askin' him."

jason taylor 09-13-2016 09:45 AM

Re: bending stereotypes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyndaran (Post 2039029)
People in power don't like anything that threatens that power. Trial by combat would be far too unpredictable when they can just kangaroo the court in their favor/desire.
Not to mention that if "your guy" lost then you would loudly claim cheating and around everyone goes again.

The King of France at the time did not have enough power to stack the deck in a high profile trial without consequences later and in any case he did not have that much personal interest either. The main problem was that it was a he said/she said case.

jason taylor 09-13-2016 09:52 AM

Re: bending stereotypes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyndaran (Post 2039023)
Mercenary must mean hired aggressor otherwise you must define police as mercenaries. That would strike me as absurd.
Unless you mean it as a adjective then of course it can be more generalized for attitude.

I don't see in principal why there cannot be police defined as mercenaries(a sort of condottieri police force that is hired by a town prone to faction for instance). Nor do I see why it must mean hired aggressor(any belligerent with the money can hire mercenaries not just an aggressor). The point of the word is that the terms are contractural. Most soldiers have some sort of connection other then the commercial but a mercenary, however honorable or dishonorable might just as well serve one side as another though they may have preferences(Swiss always specified that they not be used against the Cantons for instance). The chief reward for soldiering is usually intangible. Indeed if you press a point in a condottieri band only the warlord is a mercenary and the soldiers are arguably his liegemen. But in any case the point is that this is why mercenary is mostly a theoretical concept.

If I fight for the United States of America, I will be a citizen. If I fight for Britain or Israel I will be a sympathetic foreigner. My connection to those countries exists outside my military service. If I fight for Indonesia it would have to be as a mercenary as I do not care that much about it one way or another.

jason taylor 09-13-2016 10:14 AM

Re: bending stereotypes
 
A techie who is six feet tall, works out at the gym, and is adored by the girls.

A sailor who hates tatoos. And only drinks tea.

A drill-sergeant who is nice to recruits.

tshiggins 09-13-2016 12:01 PM

Re: bending stereotypes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ericthered (Post 2039069)
Historically most mercenaries have a strongly preferred side but do care about pay and for various reasons don't serve in the main military forces. I think Kaff Tagon from Schlock Mercenary actually manages to both be the stereotype (the man is obsessed with getting paid twice for the same job) and bend it (very loyal to his men, and friends, has a few sides he won't double-cross, and a well developed but non-standard sense of honor).

(SNIP)

Rick Blaine is the classic example of a "mercenary" who only fights for the side he believes in, but pretends to be in it only for the money.

jason taylor 09-13-2016 07:13 PM

Re: bending stereotypes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tshiggins (Post 2039140)
Rick Blaine is the classic example of a "mercenary" who only fights for the side he believes in, but pretends to be in it only for the money.

Mercs in that time period were rarer then at many times when most people fought for ideology or nationalism. And most powers were well organized and had enough population to use their own resources. There were places a merc could find work such as with a Tuchan. Spies are often mercs of course and often don't care or even know what side they are on. And out in the boondocks of course it was known for an officer to hire locals for some project of his. George Macdonald Fraser remembers one time when he had to haul a rocket launcher that a commando out in the wild had put an order for. When he got there he found that the guy had built himself a little private army by hiring Burmese and was waiting on the riverbank for Japanese barges to pass(that's what he wanted the rocket launcher for). Many of the SS seem to have been mercenaries as well.

jason taylor 09-13-2016 07:30 PM

Re: bending stereotypes
 
A Roman Emperor that absolutely hates having grapes put in his mouth by servants.

A Political Officer who is knowledgeable about tactics and doesn't disturb the commander without good reason. Double if he is paired with a military commander who is a fanatical and bigoted revolutionary.

A Frenchman that does not know a thing about wine.

An English Country Gentleman that likes Westerns.

Flyndaran 09-13-2016 07:38 PM

Re: bending stereotypes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jason taylor (Post 2039095)
A techie who is six feet tall, works out at the gym, and is adored by the girls.

A sailor who hates tatoos. And only drinks tea.

A drill-sergeant who is nice to recruits.

The first one was a recurring character on N.C.I.S. except he was quite a bit over 6 feet. Though all your suggestions lead to massive Mary Sue point bloat, in my opinion.

I can't imagine how drill sergeants can be nice during training and remain effective. Off the clock so to speak and super gentle and caring, sure, but not when doing their job.

The sailor reminds me of the very weird religious pirate that forbade alcohol on his ship. His name escapes me but he was unique.

Flyndaran 09-13-2016 07:42 PM

Re: bending stereotypes
 
Honorable Internal Affairs officers in a cop setting.
Honorable Defense Lawyers in a cop setting.
Honorable reporters in a cop setting.
Honorable cops in a Defense Lawyer setting.

jason taylor 09-13-2016 08:18 PM

Re: bending stereotypes
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyndaran (Post 2039326)
Honorable Internal Affairs officers in a cop setting.
Honorable Defense Lawyers in a cop setting.
Honorable reporters in a cop setting.
Honorable cops in a Defense Lawyer setting.

Honorable members of any other agency but the heroes'.

Miles Vorkosigan is to some degree an honorable internal affairs officer in later episodes.


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