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-   -   [LT] Monstrous Bow SM+3 (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=98940)

Seneschal 10-24-2012 05:37 AM

[LT] Monstrous Bow SM+3
 
So, I'm currently playing a Magneto-like mage in a fantasy campaign, with Telekinesis 35 (Magnetic, -50%) being his primary advantage. I realized that giving him a huge metal bow rated for ST 35 might be really effective, but I'm having trouble scaling it up.

The only metal bow that I found in the books is the tubular bow from Low Tech, but it's designed to be both small and light, letting the steel's tensile strength compensate for how short the bow and the draw length are. I'm not sure if it's in the spirit of the entry to just scale up the numbers.

Now, Low Tech Companion 2 has rules for enlarging weapons. It pretty neatly puts ST 35 as suited for SM+3 wielders. Nothing outright bars me from making a SM+0 bow rated for ST 35, but the campaign setting is rather consistent, so some kind of natural progression would be preferred - i.e. a bow the size of a ballista would be much more plausible than a tiny human-sized bow that you can only draw with a hydraulic piston. I have several questions regarding the weapon scaling method:
  • The flat damage bonus to bows is independent of strength, and seems to depend on bow construction and material - e.g. a short selfbow has thr imp, a reflex composite bow has thr+3 imp, whether they're rated for ST 6 or 60. If you enlarge a bow simply to take advantage of higher ST, would this number increase as well, or is it a flat bonus?
  • Is it possible to devise a steel bow of the "long" variety, i.e. with Acc 3 (without it being Accurate)? Or is that an exclusive property of reflex and longbows? If so, what causes it? Could you make a "metal reflex bow" if you somehow laminated steel with other metals?
  • The cost seems to inflate ridiculously. The SM+3 entry on the table gives a weight/cost multiplier of x12.25, so a scaled-up tubular bow (2 lb., $900) would weigh 24.5 lb. and cost $11,025 (!!). The price of steel in the region we're currently in (where it's rare enough that bronze is used instead) is about $20-30/lb.; therefore, the raw materials costs come to about $490 of steel (and a little something for the drawstring), while the labor costs somehow bloom into the tens of thousands for a mundane, non-fine weapon purely because it's big.
  • What kind of arrows would such a monstrosity use? Do I scale their weight and cost with the same x12.25 that I use for the weapon?
Thanks in advance for whatever you guys come up with, I appreciate the help.

Aneirin 10-24-2012 05:43 AM

Re: [LT] Monstrous Bow SM+3
 
You could try fiddling around with the deadly spring making a large metal cross now. May take a while, and you may find it doesn't do the damage you want, but it will be as close to realism as you are going to get.
You may even find such a large metal bow wouldn't work at all.
Though truth be told, if he has magnetic powers he would probably be better off shooting metal bullets sling style!

Flyndaran 10-24-2012 05:46 AM

Re: [LT] Monstrous Bow SM+3
 
How would a metal only teke pull a non magnetic bow string?

gilbertocarlos 10-24-2012 06:23 AM

Re: [LT] Monstrous Bow SM+3
 
Good luck trying to make a bow with a metallic string.

weby 10-24-2012 06:25 AM

Re: [LT] Monstrous Bow SM+3
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyndaran (Post 1463600)
How would a metal only teke pull a non magnetic bow string?

Put a metal serving on the string?

Flyndaran 10-24-2012 06:28 AM

Re: [LT] Monstrous Bow SM+3
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gilbertocarlos (Post 1463619)
Good luck trying to make a bow with a metallic string.

Why am I trying so hard to come up with puns about only "axes" being able to be "metal"?

gilbertocarlos 10-24-2012 06:30 AM

Re: [LT] Monstrous Bow SM+3
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Seneschal (Post 1463596)
The flat damage bonus to bows is independent of strength, and seems to depend on bow construction and material - e.g. a short selfbow has thr imp, a reflex composite bow has thr+3 imp, whether they're rated for ST 6 or 60. If you enlarge a bow simply to take advantage of higher ST, would this number increase as well, or is it a flat bonus?

The bonus isn't flat, you multiply it for *1,5 for each size increase, so, you increased it 3 times is 3*1,5=4*1,5=6*1,5=9
So, it's Thr+9 imp

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seneschal (Post 1463596)
Is it possible to devise a steel bow of the "long" variety, i.e. with Acc 3 (without it being Accurate)? Or is that an exclusive property of reflex and longbows? If so, what causes it? Could you make a "metal reflex bow" if you somehow laminated steel with other metals?

Game history, actual bows have Acc 2 at best.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seneschal (Post 1463596)
The cost seems to inflate ridiculously. The SM+3 entry on the table gives a weight/cost multiplier of x12.25, so a scaled-up tubular bow (2 lb., $900) would weigh 24.5 lb. and cost $11,025 (!!). The price of steel in the region we're currently in (where it's rare enough that bronze is used instead) is about $20-30/lb.; therefore, the raw materials costs come to about $490 of steel (and a little something for the drawstring), while the labor costs somehow bloom into the tens of thousands for a mundane, non-fine weapon purely because it's big.

That's right, I would probably ask even more since it's an unique weapon.
A tubular bow is very hard to make, that's why the cost.
The weight is also correct.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seneschal (Post 1463596)
What kind of arrows would such a monstrosity use? Do I scale their weight and cost with the same x12.25 that I use for the weapon?

Yes.

Flyndaran 10-24-2012 06:31 AM

Re: [LT] Monstrous Bow SM+3
 
Not so much arrows as planks of wood with fletching.

Seneschal 10-24-2012 08:11 AM

Re: [LT] Monstrous Bow SM+3
 
Quote:

How would a metal only teke pull a non magnetic bow string?
The initial idea is to make arrows with metal shafts, since my guy also has Control Metal and can draw long steel shafts from ingots for free. However, these would essentially be steel rebars and, even with expert fletching, I'm not sure how aerodynamic they would be. Besides, I think steel has ~20 times the density of cedar and other fletching woods, which means a steel SM+3 arrow (typical weight 1.25 lb.) would have to be a lot thinner than its wooden counterpart to share the same stats for damage and range.

A better solution might either be metal parts on the string, or to make arrows with metal nocks (which might throw-off the balance, but that can be compensated if I make my own arrows).

Quote:

That's right, I would probably ask even more since it's an unique weapon.
A tubular bow is very hard to make, that's why the cost.
The weight is also correct.
Sure, the cost is fine if you buy it off the market (except no one sells SM+3 bows). The problem is that I have no way of telling how much self-crafting, Control Metal and TK (Magnetic) might do to lower the cost. If my guy can rearrange metal as if it were play-doh, does he pay only for raw steel ingots? Is there some heat-treatment or special technique for making a 4-metre steel bow that he cannot do with his mind?

Quote:

You could try fiddling around with the deadly spring making a large metal cross now. May take a while, and you may find it doesn't do the damage you want, but it will be as close to realism as you are going to get.
You may even find such a large metal bow wouldn't work at all.
Though truth be told, if he has magnetic powers he would probably be better off shooting metal bullets sling style!
I have a "shoot bullets" power, but it's about twice as effective as a typical TL4 flintlock pistol. Still awesome, mind you, but a ST 35 bow has a range of 700/900 yards. Nothing at TL4 can even come close to that.

As for the "deadly spring", I don't know what you're referring to. Is there a system somewhere for calculating any of the things that would help me? I haven't seen it in any of the books, and if I try to do purely physical modelling, I'll probably get it wrong and not know how to translate it into GURPS rules anyhow.

Bruno 10-24-2012 08:14 AM

Re: [LT] Monstrous Bow SM+3
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyndaran (Post 1463626)
Not so much arrows as planks of wood with fletching.

SM +3 is 3x length and diameter, so assuming longbow arrows, about 95" long, and 1" in diameter. Not that thick, I wouldn't call them planks. But nearly 8 feet long is pretty respectable :D


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