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-   -   Dungeon Fantasy RPG All-Out Attack (Double) Question (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=155691)

rerednaw 02-11-2018 09:31 PM

Dungeon Fantasy RPG All-Out Attack (Double) Question
 
Hey guys I am just trying to figure this out.
Guy charged up (full move) and said "all out attack double" with his rapier.
He did 5 attacks first at full skill and then 4 more @ -4.

Where is this?

Thanks!

EDIT: he is claiming that double attack and rapid strike stacks this way...I thought rapid strike only let you do 1 more (total of 3 attacks) He does have weapon master...but did not pick up extra attack.
EDIT#2: To avoid confusion we are using DF splatbooks for GURPS not the DFRPG. I just get really confused with all the snippets of various rules and how they combine.

GWJ 02-11-2018 09:42 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy RPG All-Out Attack (Double) Question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rerednaw (Post 2157719)
Hey guys I am just trying to figure this out.
Guy charged up (full move) and said "all out attack double" with his rapier.
He did 5 attacks first at full skill and the 4 more -4.

Where is this?

Thanks!

It's something wrong.
1. All-Out Attack (every option) allows you to move up to HALF move.
2. It's just give you one extra attack - NOT doubling number od your attacks.
3. I don't know for what is this -4 penalty. If it was Rapid Strike, then penalty for 3 extra attacks should be -9 with Weapon Master (od -18 without).

EDIT: nope. Martial Arts p.126-127 - there is clear explanation about multiple attacks. In addition, from what you said I think it was Double-Weapon Attack (not Rapid Strike). It splits ONE attack into two attacks with -4 to both od them. But it's for double wielders. So Swashbuckler doing All-Out (Double) Dual-Weapon Attack can move up to HALF Move, attack one time without penalties, and two attacks at -4 with two different weapons.

Anthony 02-11-2018 10:37 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy RPG All-Out Attack (Double) Question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rerednaw (Post 2157719)
EDIT: he is claiming that double attack and rapid strike stacks this way...I thought rapid strike only let you do 1 more (total of 3 attacks) He does have weapon master...but did not pick up extra attack.

He's wrong. All-out (double) allows two attacks at no penalty. Rapid strike allows you to convert one of those attacks into a double attack at -6/-6 (-3/-3 for weapon master), so the combination allows three attacks, at +0/-3/-3. Double attack cannot be combined with rapid strike but can be combined with all-out attack, so it lets you do three attacks at +0/-4/-4.

GWJ 02-12-2018 06:33 AM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy RPG All-Out Attack (Double) Question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 2157734)
Double attack cannot be combined with rapid strike but can be combined with all-out attack, so it lets you do three attacks at +0/-4/-4.

Dual-Weapon Attack cannot be combined with rapid strike but can be combined with all-out attack, so it lets you do three attacks at +0/-4/-4

AlexanderHowl 02-12-2018 01:17 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy RPG All-Out Attack (Double) Question
 
If you have Weapon Master, Rapid Strike is more efficient than DWA (-3/-3 versus -4/4). In addition, you can do more than one extra attack with a Rapid Strike, though seven extra attacks would be at -21! Now, you could have a character with Extra Attack (Multistrike, +20%; Rapier Only, -20%) 7 [175], which would allow 9 attacks at base skill with an AOA (Double), but I really do not see the utility of AOA (Double) at that point.

GWJ 02-12-2018 01:33 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy RPG All-Out Attack (Double) Question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl (Post 2157900)
If you have Weapon Master, Rapid Strike is more efficient than DWA (-3/-3 versus -4/4). In addition, you can do more than one extra attack with a Rapid Strike, though seven extra attacks would be at -21! Now, you could have a character with Extra Attack (Multistrike, +20%; Rapier Only, -20%) 7 [175], which would allow 9 attacks at base skill with an AOA (Double), but I really do not see the utility of AOA (Double) at that point.

More than one attack for WM is an optional rule.

Anaraxes 02-12-2018 03:40 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy RPG All-Out Attack (Double) Question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rerednaw (Post 2157719)
"all out attack double"

Probably obvious at this point, but the Maneuver is called "Double" because in the normal case, it allows you to make two attacks instead of the usual one. That's "double", but as others have said, it's really "All-out Attack (Plus One)". If you have some other cinematic Advantages that give you more than one attack when doing a regular Attack Maneuver, they all add, rather than multiply.

The description for the All-out Attack Maneuver is on page B365 of GURPS Basic, Characters. The title does say DFRPG, but unfortunately, I don't have the DFRPG book, so I can't cite a page number there for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GURPS B365
Double: Make two attacks against the same foe, if you have two ready weapons or one weapon that does not have to be readied after use. Attacks with a second weapon held in the off hand are at the usual -4 (see Handedness, p. 14) unless you have Ambidexterity (p. 39).


Torvsen 02-12-2018 04:11 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy RPG All-Out Attack (Double) Question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rerednaw (Post 2157719)
Hey guys I am just trying to figure this out.
Guy charged up (full move) and said "all out attack double" with his rapier.
He did 5 attacks first at full skill and then 4 more @ -4.

Where is this?

Thanks!

EDIT: he is claiming that double attack and rapid strike stacks this way...I thought rapid strike only let you do 1 more (total of 3 attacks) He does have weapon master...but did not pick up extra attack.

As the guy, who was playing that character yesterday, let me explain:

It was All-Out Attack (Double) which gives two Attacks at full skill, leaving me defenseless.

I did two steps in the direction of the enemy and then made Rapid Strike, splitting the second Attack for 4 attacks (-18 each), using Flurry of Blows as per B357 (which makes the penalty -9 per attack), and my character has Weapon Master (additionally halving the penalty to -4)

So it makes 5 attacks, not 9

1st @ Full skill
2nd @ -4 to skill, -1 FP
3rd @ -4 to skill, -1 FP
4th @ -4 to skill, -1 FP
5th @ -4 to skill, -1 FP

No defenses allowed, -4FP in total.

Is this correct?

mlangsdorf 02-12-2018 04:18 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy RPG All-Out Attack (Double) Question
 
DFRPG: Exploits p30 is explicit that All-Out Attack: Double lets you make two attacks against one foe.

DFPRG: Exploits p36 is equally explicit that you may trade one and only one attack for a dual-weapon attack, and you cannot Rapid Strike during the same turn.

DFRPG: Exploits p38 is equally explicit that you may trade one and only one attack for a Rapid Strike, and you cannot make a dual weapon attack during the same turn.

DFPRG: Adventurers p49, under Extra Attack, summarizes all the above information and includes the page references.

He's very wrong, but if you have the DFRPG, you could have easily looked this up yourself.

The best a swashbuckler or knight can do in DFRPG is 5 attacks: All-Out Attack Double for 3 with 2 of the strikes suffering Rapid Strike or Dual-Weapon Attack penalties and 2 Extra Attacks. Assuming a Weapon Master making a Rapid Strike, he rolls 3 attacks at no penalty and 2 attacks at -3.

ninja to Torvsen:
You can't stack penalties on Rapid Strike to make multiple attacks. It's one attack becomes 2 attacks at -6. It's not one attack becomes X+1 attacks at -6*X total penalty. I can see how you might read it that way from the Basic set, but the DFPRG is very explicit.

Torvsen 02-12-2018 04:27 PM

Re: Dungeon Fantasy RPG All-Out Attack (Double) Question
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf (Post 2157945)

ninja to Torvsen:
You can't stack penalties on Rapid Strike to make multiple attacks. It's one attack becomes 2 attacks at -6. It's not one attack becomes X+1 attacks at -6*X total penalty. I can see how you might read it that way from the Basic set, but the DFPRG is very explicit.


Well, MA127 begs to differ

Quote:

In a cinematic campaign – especially a chambara or wuxia
one – the GM may wish to allow more than two attacks with
a Rapid Strike (p. B370). If so, the penalty becomes -6 per
extra attack: -6 for two attacks, -12 for three, -18 for four, and
so on. This applies to all the attacks; it doesn’t accumulate
gradually. For instance, three attacks would all be at -12.


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