Steve Jackson Games Forums

Steve Jackson Games Forums (http://forums.sjgames.com/index.php)
-   GURPS (http://forums.sjgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=13)
-   -   Overkill on a Mozambique drill (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=77287)

jacobmuller 02-18-2011 05:53 PM

Overkill on a Mozambique drill
 
I just want to check I'm doing the "death checks" correctly. Specifically, I'm not sure if the following results in 2 or 3 (although I'll not be surprised to hear I've got something else totally wrong:)) Thanks in advance...

The victim has 12HP and 12HT:
First shot is Vitals for 30 injury = HT roll or die and then HT-5 for Knockdown
Second is Vitals for 24 injury = HT roll or die* and HT-5 for Knockdown.
Assuming you're still alive and conscious, roll vs HT-3 at start of your next turn or fall unconscious.

*Or does the second hit result in Two HT rolls, one for each multiple of HT passed per B419, -1xHP
Quote:

Roll again each time you suffer injury equal to a further multiple of your HP, whether as a result of one wound or many
There was actually a third shot, brain hit for 56 injury, which made all the above moot, except possibly as a result of an autopsy and an IAD investigation: did the officer pause to check the effect of his first two shots or did he deliberately use unnecessary force, ie did he ignore the evidence of his own eyes or simply not realize how effective his first two shots had been?

10mm Compact ETK: 4d+1 (0.5) pi++; Acc 2; Rng 240/ 2,750; wgt 1.5/0.4; cap 15; ST 10; Bulk -1; $500; Boosted stats 6d pi+; 310/ 3,600.

Anthony 02-18-2011 06:08 PM

Re: Overkill on a Mozambique drill
 
This is a case of GURPS not precisely modeling reality, but the rules-correct implementation is:
Hit 1: reduces HP to -18. 1 death check (for passing -12)
Hit 2: reduces HP to -42. 2 death checks (for passing -24 and -36)
Hit 3: reduces HP to -98. Automatic death.

Of course, the Mozambique drill isn't really designed for pistols with the lethality of battle rifles.

sir_pudding 02-18-2011 06:12 PM

Re: Overkill on a Mozambique drill
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 1125497)
Of course, the Mozambique drill isn't really designed for pistols with the lethality of battle rifles.

I was trained to do "failure drills" with the M16/M4 ("varmit round", I know).

Anthony 02-18-2011 06:16 PM

Re: Overkill on a Mozambique drill
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sir_pudding (Post 1125499)
I was trained to do "failure drills" with the M16/M4 ("varmit round", I know).

I suspect the odds of needing three shots with an M16 is very low, unless of course you don't actually hit the vitals.

sir_pudding 02-18-2011 06:17 PM

Re: Overkill on a Mozambique drill
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 1125502)
I suspect the odds of needing three shots with an M16 is very low, unless of course you don't actually hit the vitals.

Which is likely if the target is wearing body armor.

Anthony 02-18-2011 06:19 PM

Re: Overkill on a Mozambique drill
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sir_pudding (Post 1125505)
Which is likely if the target is wearing body armor.

Ah, good point.

Peter Knutsen 02-18-2011 06:28 PM

Re: Overkill on a Mozambique drill
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jacobmuller (Post 1125488)
There was actually a third shot, brain hit for 56 injury, which made all the above moot, except possibly as a result of an autopsy and an IAD investigation: did the officer pause to check the effect of his first two shots or did he deliberately use unnecessary force, ie did he ignore the evidence of his own eyes or simply not realize how effective his first two shots had been?

I thought the MZBD was all about muscle memory, with literally no time to think between the double-tap and the headshot.

That's certainly the way it looked to me, in that Tom Cruise movie where he's playing an assassin (crappy movie, by the way; didn't like anything about it except the cool drill). Bangbangbang. Looked like it's become programmed into the spinal cord, not entirely unlike touch typing. I don't think between hitting the Y and the P key, because there's no time for it. I just write "typing".

DouglasCole 02-18-2011 06:37 PM

Re: Overkill on a Mozambique drill
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen (Post 1125515)
I thought the MZBD was all about muscle memory, with literally no time to think between the double-tap and the headshot.

That's certainly the way it looked to me, in that Tom Cruise movie where he's playing an assassin (crappy movie, by the way; didn't like anything about it except the cool drill). Bangbangbang. Looked like it's become programmed into the spinal cord, not entirely unlike touch typing. I don't think between hitting the Y and the P key, because there's no time for it. I just write "typing".

Do you own Tactical Shooting? The original genesis of the drill is explained on p15.

Cruise was discussed either in playtest or just in conversation between Hans, myself, and others. Apparently everyone was impressed on how he took to that drill (he seems a natural athlete, and quite the perfectionist, so he practiced a lot) and how well he did it.

But the point of the third shot to the head is that it's a CONSIDERED shot. The movie Collateral shows a cinematic version of it being performed fast, by an actor who was remarked upon for how VERY fast he could do it, even considered a quick study by his teachers.

That's in the book, too, by the way. On p82.

RyanW 02-18-2011 07:04 PM

Re: Overkill on a Mozambique drill
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jacobmuller (Post 1125488)
There was actually a third shot, brain hit for 56 injury, which made all the above moot, except possibly as a result of an autopsy and an IAD investigation: did the officer pause to check the effect of his first two shots or did he deliberately use unnecessary force, ie did he ignore the evidence of his own eyes or simply not realize how effective his first two shots had been?

If the situation is judged to warrant deadly force, multiple shots that would have individually proven fatal* would probably only bring further investigation if the evidence showed that the range or angle changed significantly. That would suggest that the shooter had shot the target, moved, and shot again, as though he was finishing off a downed foe. Even then, if they were moving to arrest a wounded man and he went for his gun, they would probably be able to justify that.

If you're going to kill you might as well overkill. However, once someone is no longer a threat, cops call ambulances, not put an extra round in them. At the same time, cops don't normally make called shots to the head, and doing so might get someone labeled a loose cannon by the media (or a superior or IAD investigator with an axe to grind).

* "Instantly fatal" pretty much means a central nervous system injury. Heart, liver, and such might be instantly incapacitating and quickly fatal, but an autopsy probably won't reveal such details.

Langy 02-18-2011 07:21 PM

Re: Overkill on a Mozambique drill
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanW (Post 1125536)
If you're going to kill you might as well overkill. However, once someone is no longer a threat, cops call ambulances, not put an extra round in them. At the same time, cops don't normally make called shots to the head, and doing so might get someone labeled a loose cannon by the media (or a superior or IAD investigator with an axe to grind).

* "Instantly fatal" pretty much means a central nervous system injury. Heart, liver, and such might be instantly incapacitating and quickly fatal, but an autopsy probably won't reveal such details.

Note that this isn't the case with SWAT teams taking out hostage takers, who are trained to shoot to the head for an instant kill in order to prevent them from injuring hostages while they die.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:24 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.