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-   -   DF: Incantations Questions (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=164660)

Jaware 07-21-2019 04:01 PM

DF: Incantations Questions
 
So I finally got around to getting my hands on DF 19: Incantations.

Now, I was up for about 22 hrs when I skimmed over it, so i could just be an error on my part but I have some issues with how its set up.

I really like how it works, with the SP and casting times and all. The Scripts and the Infusions are a nice touch etc.

I really like how its handled. Dare I say it, Possibly more than RPM.

However. I really, Really, REALLY, disagree with the 8 paths presented in Incantation. Me personally, I don't see how "Demonology" is one of the 8 fundamental pieces of reality.
Same way with inability to cast a heal spell, and a few other bits and pieces.

Now, I have read, and do understand the "Incantation magic and other system", and the "Publication History" states that incantation magic is NOT rpm. That it is a derivative, that was reworked to fit Dungeon Fantasy. And that "All sections have been heavily modified to fit dungeon fantasy"

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Now, My question, does anybody know How and Why those sections have been changed?

I don't play Dungeon Fantasy, and I feel Incantations could fit nicely in a world that I'm building. And I know that I could probably just swap the Paths back over, and re balance a few things, and just make do.

But I would like to know what was changed and why it was changed to make that whole process easier.

johndallman 07-21-2019 04:08 PM

Re: DF: Incantations Questions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaware (Post 2275423)
Me personally, I don't see how "Demonology" is one of the 8 fundamental pieces of reality.

No, but it is much more arguable that it's one of the eight most important pieces of magic for plots involving dungeon-delvers. Hopefully, usually involving the delvers putting a stop to the demonology. DF does not try to portray a complete world with a full array of magics. It just concentrates on the adventuring tropes.
Quote:

Same way with inability to cast a heal spell . . .
That's a classic D&D trope: that you need clerics for healing.

Jaware 07-21-2019 05:30 PM

Re: DF: Incantations Questions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by johndallman (Post 2275424)
No, but it is much more arguable that it's one of the eight most important pieces of magic for plots involving dungeon-delvers. Hopefully, usually involving the delvers putting a stop to the demonology. DF does not try to portray a complete world with a full array of magics. It just concentrates on the adventuring tropes.

That's a classic D&D trope: that you need clerics for healing.

Like I stated in my post...

I can understand why it was done. I just disagree with it. Especially because I don't do Dungeon Fantasy.

I do actual worlds and the like.

my question wasn't about that. It was how they were changed. that way I can rework it for Non-Dungeon Fantasy.

Diomedes 07-21-2019 05:53 PM

Re: DF: Incantations Questions
 
I dont think there would be any problem with just using the RPM paths, or jsimply coming up with your own. Im pondering doing the same thing, for a sort of DF-plus setting.

Jaware 07-21-2019 06:48 PM

Re: DF: Incantations Questions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Diomedes (Post 2275432)
I dont think there would be any problem with just using the RPM paths, or jsimply coming up with your own. Im pondering doing the same thing, for a sort of DF-plus setting.

That's what I'm thinking about doing.

One of the biggest hurdles that I can think of is the whole greater effects or not.

On one hand I can understand why greater effects exist in RPM. but on the other, I can understand why they were left out in Incantations.

my personal setting has normal wizardry incapable of gate type spells/transport. The entire college doesn't exist. However, RPM mages are capable of opening portals to different places etc.

The entire economy is balanced around this form of travel. Each capital city in each country is built around a massive stone Obelisk that marks a natural weak point in the fabric of space. This results in trade and travel being easily opened between Capital cities since its not a greater effect to create a portal at a weak point in my world. Two weak points are opened at two different places and a "rabbit hole" is opened between them allowing much faster travel. Where cities may be 500+ miles apart, the 'Rabbit hole" can shorten it to a fraction of a distance depending on the energy put into the spell.

Christopher R. Rice 07-21-2019 08:17 PM

Re: DF: Incantations Questions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaware (Post 2275423)
So I finally got around to getting my hands on DF 19: Incantations.

Thanks for buying it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaware (Post 2275423)
Now, I was up for about 22 hrs when I skimmed over it, so i could just be an error on my part but I have some issues with how its set up.

I know those feels intimately as a fellow insomniac

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaware (Post 2275423)
I really like how it works, with the SP and casting times and all. The Scripts and the Infusions are a nice touch etc.

I rather liked how it turned out myself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaware (Post 2275423)
I really like how its handled. Dare I say it, Possibly more than RPM.

I use a variation of DF19 in my occult-horror campaign the Chronicles of Cetreri.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaware (Post 2275423)
However. I really, Really, REALLY, disagree with the 8 paths presented in Incantation. Me personally, I don't see how "Demonology" is one of the 8 fundamental pieces of reality.
Same way with inability to cast a heal spell, and a few other bits and pieces.

They were specifically chosen to evoke an old skool magic feel. Demonology was made separate because Necromancy was already doing too much and we needed at least 8 paths. Demonology isn't just about demons. It's about angels and servitors as well. You could think of it as classic diabolism and dealing with extradimensional energies and you wouldn't be far off. It's just in DF most things that would truck with the PCs are demons on the search for tasty tasty souls. So we kept with Demonology.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaware (Post 2275423)
Now, I have read, and do understand the "Incantation magic and other system", and the "Publication History" states that incantation magic is NOT rpm. That it is a derivative, that was reworked to fit Dungeon Fantasy. And that "All sections have been heavily modified to fit dungeon fantasy"

Yup.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaware (Post 2275423)
I don't play Dungeon Fantasy, and I feel Incantations could fit nicely in a world that I'm building. And I know that I could probably just swap the Paths back over, and re balance a few things, and just make do.

Yup. Shouldn't be much of a problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaware (Post 2275423)
But I would like to know what was changed and why it was changed to make that whole process easier.

In general, DF19 defined things concretely that normal RPM left nebulous. This was one of the mandates handed down from on high and left me tell you as the guy who did it was not exactly easy. I've run DF a lot, but I've also run a multitude of other campaigns that used RPM and I've internalized it quite a bit. This was a problem because I couldn't see the problems with nailing things down without a lot of introspection on what RPM itself was.

I hope that answers some of your questions.


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