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-   -   TFT Helper - beta test of app (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=163224)

Steve Jackson 04-23-2019 06:48 PM

TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Andrew Walters has the TFT Helper ready for beta for both iOS and Android. Link to the signup:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1_iT...HNi8R4C6Ysu6EU

Please keep in mind, if you download this, that it IS just in beta version. It will get better and prettier. You can help.

Note also that this will be a free app, so don't worry about whether downloading it now obligates you to buy it later!

I think you will like this. Andrew has bitten off a massive chunk of coding here, but he seems to be chewing it just fine . . .

hcobb 04-23-2019 07:07 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Android 6.0.1 on a mini phone
No goblins as PC race choice.
Android Backarrow exits from the app, not the submenu.
Error note about missing Staff III for Staff IV instead of adding it in.
Unable to scroll talent list for selection of new talents.
Total IQ point cost drifts down into weapons area.
Adding a dagger makes it forget about staff as a weapon.

On a 10" Android tablet I'm able to add Staff V, but the Staff damage doesn't update.
On the adventure unable to use staff of striking at range two. (Staves are throwable, BTW.)

andreww 04-23-2019 07:24 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hcobb (Post 2258040)
Android 6.0.1 on a mini phone
No goblins?
Backarrow exits from the app, not the submenu.
Error note about missing Staff III for Staff IV instead of adding it in.
Unable to scroll talent list for selection of new talents.
Total IQ point cost drifts down into weapons area.
Adding a dagger makes it forget about staff as a weapon.

Where were the goblins absent?
By Backarrow are you talking about the Android back arrow? not one in the app?
Good idea on the later staff spells!
There are some font size issues that are pushing some stuff off the screen, you shouldn't have to scroll the talent lists.
Ditto when you have many spells and it overfills the T&S area

Vis-a-vis adding a dagger and losing staff, were you adding them to the same weapon slot? There are two. To add a second weapon you tap the lower part of the weapons area. Other people have run into that same problem, which means it's a bad design.

Thanks, and expect a new version tomorrow!

hcobb 04-23-2019 07:36 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Staff spell shouldn't add a weapon at all. Just chose a weapon then if you have the Staff spell select that weapon as your staff. This then sets the mundane (from the weapon type) and occult (from the Staff spell level) damages for the staff. The very fine silver dagger staff ($2k is too much for a starting character, sigh) would then list three damage levels: melee, occult and HTH.

Allensh 04-23-2019 08:15 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
having font size issues as you said. But this looks like a great start.

misterkeller 04-23-2019 09:46 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Definitely cool! Thank You for the opportunity to beta test the app.

CardDiceian 04-24-2019 06:02 AM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Just had a little play with the App - (I added a weapon which was not allowed due to ST, but for some reason, unable to remove it again.)

FrankB 04-24-2019 06:12 AM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Halfling Stats appear to be off.

When creating a Character you have 8 points to spend, when there should only be 6 for a Halfling.

RobW 04-24-2019 07:12 AM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Problems with adjDX

In adventure mode: Simonn (ST10 DX14) vs Grizzly Bear

Turn 4 -- Simonn was hit for 7 damage:"Taking 5 or more points of damage means your next DX roll will be at -2". OK so far. Could mention here that ST is now 3 or less however.

Turn 5 -- Simonn disengages, bear could not attack. Hmm... see below.

Turn 6 -- Simonn attacks first but at "-2DX for previous injury, -3 to DX because remaining ST is 3 or less". Hmm...

Two things.
1. If Simonn's DX is -5 due to injury effects (adjDX=9), then the Bear should attack first at adjDX=11 (on both turns 5 and 6).
2. Shouldn't the temporary -2DX for 5+ damage on turn 4 apply to the next *action* (ie the turn 5 disengage), not the next *attack*, which might occur several turns later (as in this example, turn 6).

Celjabba 04-24-2019 08:24 AM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Couple bugs:
--Roll dices : extra "+" in the results . Example with 2 dices : "2+5+=7"
--Arena fight : stuck in middle of third round. Won init, rolled 16 on sling attack, automatic miss. Nothing more happen. Opponent : one-eyed sorcerer, summoned bear, summoned wolf.

RobW 04-24-2019 09:07 AM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Pole weapons and charge attacks

Seems like they're not yet implemented, but just in case:

Currently, no +2 DX for pole weapons receiving a charge
Pole weapons not going off prior to other attacks
No double damage for charge attacks

andreww 04-24-2019 09:09 AM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Thanks, these are all good descriptions. I'll be doing a bunch of work today and then let everyone know when a new version is up.

First up, though, I'll get out the invites to the iOS applicants.

If you are in combat and and you seem to have reached a dead end try dragging the screen up. I thought I had nailed this, but sometimes it does not scroll to the bottom of the text and buttons. That's still a bug, but it's different than the code not giving you buttons at all.

Keep it coming, more later.

hcobb 04-24-2019 09:52 AM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RobW (Post 2258137)
No double damage for charge attacks

Not doubled.

ITL 111: "In any case where a pole weapon is being used in a charge attack, and the attacker moved three hexes or more in a straight line, the polearm does one extra die of damage if it hits. If a pole weapon is used against a charge attack, it also gets the extra die of damage, whether or not the enemy
moved in a straight line."

RobW 04-24-2019 10:16 AM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
thanks -- should have said:
1. no +2 DX for pole weapons receiving a charge
2. pole weapons not going off prior to other attacks
3. no extra damage for pole weapons during charge attack

old habits die hard

andreww 04-24-2019 11:03 AM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
I thought pole weapons were working, except against summoned creatures and illusions. What were the conditions under which the pole weapons didn't get their advantage? You do need it against bears.

Question for the Android users: in combat do you see the dice as black with white pips or different colors for each number? The unicode for the die faces is supposed to be black and white, but some devices use a unicode bitmap with colors. I'm not sure how many devices, so I don't know how seriously to take that behavior.

Celjabba 04-24-2019 11:16 AM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by andreww (Post 2258159)
I thought pole weapons were working, except against summoned creatures and illusions. What were the conditions under which the pole weapons didn't get their advantage? You do need it against bears.

Question for the Android users: in combat do you see the dice as black with white pips or different colors for each number? The unicode for the die faces is supposed to be black and white, but some devices use a unicode bitmap with colors. I'm not sure how many devices, so I don't know how seriously to take that behavior.

Different colors.

Here are the screenshots for my bugged arena fight, as well as system info. You can see the colored dices.

Code:

Build 4/4 <br><span style="font-size:small;">userAgent = Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; Android 9; SM-G960F Build/PPR1.180610.011; wv) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Chrome/73.0.3683.90 Mobile Safari/537.36<br>Platform: Linux armv8l</span>###,5,1011
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Cp3...ew?usp=sharing

Hope this help

andreww 04-24-2019 11:39 AM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Celjabba (Post 2258132)
Couple bugs:
--Roll dices : extra "+" in the results . Example with 2 dices : "2+5+=7"
--Arena fight : stuck in middle of third round. Won init, rolled 16 on sling attack, automatic miss. Nothing more happen. Opponent : one-eyed sorcerer, summoned bear, summoned wolf.

Do you recall when you saw ''2+5+=7"?

The one eyed sorcerer is trouble. I want to add more wizard opponents, but I have to fix bugs.

Celjabba 04-24-2019 11:46 AM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by andreww (Post 2258166)
Do you recall when you saw ''2+5+=7"?

The one eyed sorcerer is trouble. I want to add more wizard opponents, but I have to fix bugs.

I saw it in the Roll dice menu option

Screenshot : https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wGC...ew?usp=sharing

RobW 04-24-2019 01:21 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by andreww (Post 2258159)
I thought pole weapons were working, except against summoned creatures and illusions. What were the conditions under which the pole weapons didn't get their advantage? You do need it against bears.

I've just rerun a different encounter with the same result, and in detail:
It's "Bass" (created figure, 2-hand spear + bow) vs Quick Rat and Clumsy Rat
turn 1
10 yards apart
Bass holds; rats close to 6 yards
turn 2
Bass moves 1 yard backwards
rats close to 3 yards
turn 3
rats engage
Bass holds
quick rat hits and does 1 pt damage
Bass attacks at "-2 DX due to previous injury" -- (is this a bug? Only 1 damage was done?)
Bass hits, 1d+1 for 3 total damage (no extra die), Quick Rat is dead
However, no +2 DX set against charge, pole weapon went second, and no extra damage
turn 4
Bass disengages
turn 5
Bass moves 10 hexes backward
Clumsy Rat closes to 8 yards
turn 6
Clumsy Rat close to 4 yards
Bass takes 3 steps forward and attacks. Now gets option of "Pole Weapon First Attack". In this case everything looks right: attack first and with extra damage

So the problem might be about pole weapon figure receiving a charge attack rather than initiating.

RobW 04-24-2019 01:27 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Change weapons option

Continuing from the rats encounter, Bass met Scruffy Wizard. At a range of 10 hexes, Bass elects to move 0 hexes and act. He is given the option of throwing his spear, but not the option to change to his bow.

Interestingly, when Bass subsequently engages the wizard, he is then given the option to "drop spear and ready long bow"!

RobW 04-24-2019 01:44 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Abrupt end to encounter

I'm not sure if maybe the figures separated too far or what, so I'll just give a transcript of events.

It's Bass vs Scruffy Wizard.
Turn 1. Separation 10 yards.
Movement: Scruffy holds; Bass moves 5 yards
Action: Scruffy muffs spell; Bass does nothing
Turn 2. Separation 5 yards
Movement: Bass holds; Scruffy holds
Action: Scruffy cast Dazzle; Bass does nothing
Turn 3. Separation 5 yards
Movement: Bass moves 4 yards toward the enemy; Scruffy is now engaged
Action: Scruffy casts a spell. "You are hit with a blow out of nowhere!" 4 pts damage -1 for cloth = 3 hits on Bass; Bass disengages -- possible bug --is it legal to move 4 hexes then disengage?
Turn 4. Separation 2 yards
Movement: "Scruffy is hurting and runs. is engaged" -- something odd in this text; Bass moves 10 yards away from the enemy
Action: Scruffy casts a spell. "You are hit with a blow out of nowhere!" 3 pts damage -1 for cloth = 2 hits on Bass; Bass does nothing

Problem: Then there is no option to further the encounter, no "initiative" box or anything.

If I go back to the main menu, "go on an adventure", select Bass, and then "continue", it is just the same, ie no option to further the encounter.

RobW 04-24-2019 01:50 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Dodge option

Possibly not a bug -- It seems that Dodge is executed during movement. For example, if I move 1 yard and Dodge, then I cannot subsequently select a different (otherwise legal) option.

There has been a lot of discussion on this forum about when a Dodge is executed, and so it would be very interesting to know whether SJ feels this reflects the intention of the rules.

RobW 04-24-2019 01:53 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Can I just say Andrew, I am loving that this app exists! Until you say otherwise, I'll keep sending reports about possible gameplay bugs.

Fuhrmanator 04-24-2019 03:41 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Is there a trick to see this forum in a more phone-friendly format? It's really cumbersome on a phone (even my progressive lenses are worthless here). Did you think about using GitHub or Google groups to track the bugs? Those sites have adaptive design. Cheers,
Cris

RVA_Grandpa 04-24-2019 03:48 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
I'm testing on my iPhone 6. I created a priest character with one spell, Dazzle.
Testing in the arena. I was not able to use it. When I pressed the button for the spell nothing happened, but a magnifying window appeared in the upper part of the screen.

https://travelingthelabyrinth.blogsp.../p/photos.html

I hope the photo helps to see with I mean.

andreww 04-24-2019 05:04 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
I'm glad people are having fun, it should get to be more fun. I've fixed about half of the notes, but only made a little progress on the font sizes. There should be a new version by the end of the day.

Remember that if you end up stuck in combat with no buttons I am very concerned about that. First, try to drag up and see if the buttons to continue the fight are down below. It's supposed to scroll to the bottom, I thought I fixed all the spots where that didn't work. The bug might still be there. Please let me know:

1: What happened right before the dead end? What were the last two announcements?

2: Were the buttons down below or not?

When I play TFT I I add one logical addition to the rules on changing options on page 102: you cannot already have benefitted from the option you are switching away from. EG you select Dodge and move one hex: you have not moved too far to cast a spell, but you cannot switch to Cast/Disbelive/Missile Attack because up until that moment you were benefitting form the Dodge option. Either someone shot at you and had to roll an extra die OR they chose not to shoot at you because you were dodging. Otherwise, would you always declare the Defend option and then change it when your turn came up?

By my reckoning you select the Dodge option before movement, and since you benefit from it immediately I don't think you can change it, even if you don't get shot at. If no one could have shot at you and there was no point to taking the Defend option either you shouldn't have selected it or perhaps you couldn't know that they couldn't shoot at you. Same difference. Once you declare Dodge or Defend I don't think you should be able to switch.

Whatever Steve says, of course, will decide how the app goes.

Meanwhile, there are currently plenty of issues with the turn sequence. There will be a big re-write tomorrow AM that will either fix them all and allow two weapon parries and we'll all live happily ever after or combat will be truly broken and that's what I'll be doing all day and night. For now post anything you observe about combat, and let's see if I can nail it tomorrow AM.

Reporting bugs on the forum just sort of happened. I am getting bug reported by iOS users through the TestFlight avenue as well. I am open to using another forum, but I don't want to spend time setting that up. If everyone loves the same idea and we can jump over without any set up that's possible.

"Adaptive Design" is obviously a phrase that's keeping me awake at night at the moment. It should be happening now, but tablet users know it's not. Soon.

andreww 04-24-2019 05:07 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RVA_Grandpa (Post 2258209)
I'm testing on my iPhone 6. I created a priest character with one spell, Dazzle.
Testing in the arena. I was not able to use it. When I pressed the button for the spell nothing happened, but a magnifying window appeared in the upper part of the screen.

I hope the photo helps to see with I mean.

Thank you for the screen shot, that makes it clear what's going on. Next, I tell you that what you saw should not have happened. Finally I tell you that I cannot recreate it. Well, almost. I can see Dazzle isn't working. Grrrr. It used to.

The magnification pane I don't understand at all.

tomc 04-24-2019 05:29 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by andreww (Post 2258159)
Question for the Android users: in combat do you see the dice as black with white pips or different colors for each number? The unicode for the die faces is supposed to be black and white, but some devices use a unicode bitmap with colors. I'm not sure how many devices, so I don't know how seriously to take that behavior.

I saw colored dice with white pips, then sometimes I get not a number as in
"You roll NaNdNaN for damage... for a total of NaN.
Jon of the Isles takes NaN points of damage. And they're out."

Edited to add: I have one character that once it started seems to always get NaN for damage. The other character still gets numbers for damage. I've always only gotten colored dice.

Android 8.0.0, Samsung Galaxy S8. More info on request.

It's a neato app! Thanks!

Fuhrmanator 04-24-2019 05:44 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
I spotted a bug where a new combat of a player that died previously was subject to a dx penalty from injuries. It's a big since I cleared my progress after dying.

I'm a software engineer who's coded a few versions of Melee arena combat and know that kind of bug is one that won't happen if the software is developed with tests (e.g. unit tests). I'm happy to point out the kinds of resources to do it, if it's useful.

mfoster81 04-24-2019 06:00 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
I really like the app.

I have noticed that you can't ready a shield and a one-handed weapon (i.e. short sword, etc). You can only ready a shield or a sword but not both.

Is anyone else seeing this?

Thanks.

andreww 04-24-2019 06:11 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
So one character consistently gets NaN? What is unique about that character? What weapon? What talent? That should be easy to fix if I knew when it happened.

I thought DX penalties *definitely* cleared, I'll look for that. It's bizarre that they would persist over an adventure reset.

It's kind of too late for unit tests. I wish I had them in mind when I made some of the design decisions.

You should be able to select a one handed weapons and a shield, in which case the shield should work. You don't need to ready it. If you are using a two handed weapon it ignores the shield, but it should work without specific readying with a one-handed weapon.

Thanks everyone!

andreww 04-24-2019 06:14 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
One thing I am keen to hear from people about is low-memory situations. If you have relatively little RAM and storage I want to know if the characters and their adventure progress persist. They should. But mobile devices make interesting choices for you if you get low on storage. From the looks of things most people have recent, capacious devices. If you happen not to be in that boat, or if you have an older device laying around, it would make me very happy to hear that when the device barely has room for the app that the characters are safe. This is probably not a problem, but if it is I need to know as soon as possible, since the fix could be involved.

Thanks!

revshafer 04-24-2019 06:16 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Just getting into it. Having some issues with scrolling, but might be my ham like thumbs. Switching between iPad and iPhone to compare.

tomc 04-24-2019 06:38 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by andreww (Post 2258247)
So one character consistently gets NaN? What is unique about that character? What weapon? What talent? That should be easy to fix if I knew when it happened.

It's a pretty run of the mill fighter. ST 10 DX 14(13) IQ8 Saber, Horse Bow, Small Shield, Cloth armor.

Just used saber and shield, never tried the bow.
1) Lost an arena combat to the two goblins (got numbers for damage)
2) Cleared progress
3) In the next arena combat and thereafter, that character always gets NaN when rolling for damage and NaN as the total damage. The opponents get numbers.

andreww 04-25-2019 12:11 AM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Okay, version 0.9.1 is up. Android users can get it from the same link. iOS users should get a message when Apple okays the new version.

Most of the things people brought up have been fixed. Still outstanding:

Changing weapons when not engaged
Two weapons skill hit-and-parry
Pole weapons vs Illusions/Summoned
Dazzle spell

The Android back button should not return you to the main menu. That's something I'd like to hear about.

Fonts, spacing, positioning, tablets, these are still in progress.

There are some sequencing problems in combat.

Hopefully those two big things will get done by sometime Friday or Saturday. After that I shouldn't be spamming you with new versions every day, hopefully just once a week.

Thanks everyone!

RVA_Grandpa 04-25-2019 12:58 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
I put Jon of the Isle up against the 2 goblins in the arena. Jon easily dispatched the first, but Twitchy Goblin was able to continue using his bow even after being engaged. I was expecting a last shot arrow once engaged, but he kept using the bow for two more melee rounds.

Also a wizard I created was unable to use any of his spells in the arena.

iPhone 6 using iOS 12.2

mfoster81 04-25-2019 03:42 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by andreww (Post 2258247)
So one character consistently gets NaN? What is unique about that character? What weapon? What talent? That should be easy to fix if I knew when it happened.

I thought DX penalties *definitely* cleared, I'll look for that. It's bizarre that they would persist over an adventure reset.

It's kind of too late for unit tests. I wish I had them in mind when I made some of the design decisions.

You should be able to select a one handed weapons and a shield, in which case the shield should work. You don't need to ready it. If you are using a two handed weapon it ignores the shield, but it should work without specific readying with a one-handed weapon.

Thanks everyone!


Andrew - I found that if I have the weapon in the top position and the shield in the bottom position then it works. If the shield is in the top position then I get the H-T-H damage and not the weapon. I get an option to drop the shield and ready the weapon (in this case, short sword.). Thanks

andreww 04-25-2019 04:01 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Everyone should be using 0.9.1 now. This will say 4/23 at the bottom of the About TFT Helper window.

Adjacent bow usage is a known issue. It's been on the list for weeks but it's a low priority. I'll probably fix that next week or even later.

Spells were working, I don't know how they broke. So for the moment, don't expect them to work. We'll test them when they're fixed.

The shield dependency on weapon slot is an interesting oversight. I think that's an easy fix.

Thanks!

RVA_Grandpa 04-25-2019 06:48 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
To me it's easier to show what the problems are so I was careful to take screenshots of the new version of the app today.

Go to: https://travelingthelabyrinth.blogsp.../p/photos.html

The screenshots are numbered.

Photo # 1 - View of the character sheet on the previous version of the app. Again, I am using iPhone 6, iOS 12.2.
Photo # 2 - View of the same character sheet in the new version.
Photo # 3 - Text does not fit inside the buttons. (It did before).
Photo # 4 - Jeremiah was abe to successfully use the Dazzle spell against an opponent, but the text refers to it as the Blur spell.
Photo # 5 - Jeremiah wins, but is not awarded any XP. Also the Share button does not work.
Photo # 6 - Headers (in black) for each category of the reference pages overlap and cover the category titles. They are still usable.

hcobb 04-25-2019 09:21 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Android:

Shield Rush with Shield Expertise and a Spike Shield does NaN damage.

Also getting excessive Unarmed Combat bonuses while wielding that shield.

Knocked a spider over and it bit me that same turn.

Lord Twig 04-26-2019 11:50 AM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Hi. Great app! I know it is going to be free, but will there be some kind of money stream for it? Ads or premium content? I would be happy to throw some money at you to keep it going!

As for bugs, the previous version I had a character at 3 Strength eat some mushrooms and got 1.5 fatigue from it. I assume that should be rounded up or down?

Just installed the 4/23 version 9.1. But not sure I can replicate that exact scenario.

Fuhrmanator 04-26-2019 12:19 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
The bug with carrying over dx penalty still exists. See the proof below.

It's never too late for unit tests! I wrote a bunch for melee before, but probably not in the language you're using? If the app is free, you can consider open sourcing the code?

http://i.imgur.com/PZzCAM2.jpg

Edit: here's some source for a sample unit-test (hope you can get the idea) that asserts that no dx penalty occurs at the start of the round, that it exists after the hero takes 5 hits, and that it persists for at least an entire round:

dexPenaltyLastsOneCompleteRound: function (o) {
assert(o.hero.sufferingDexPenalty()).not();
o.hero.takeHits(5);
assert(o.hero.sufferingDexPenalty());
o.hero.newRound();
assert(o.hero.damageTakenThisRound()).equals(0);
assert(o.hero.sufferingDexPenalty());
o.hero.newRound();
assert(o.hero.sufferingDexPenalty()).not();
},

hcobb 04-26-2019 12:26 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
If SJGames wants an open source app then I could convert my PHP random character generator to a Javascript driven PDF character pad for fairly broad cross-platform support. (Just delete the pages of the characters you no longer wish to track.)

Lord Twig 04-26-2019 12:36 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Just tried a few combats with the newest version and it looks like the Toughness talent isn't working.

Shroomofinsanity 04-27-2019 09:46 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
I will second that toughness isnt working. Also is there a way to scroll through talents? When I pull up the other combat talents on my galaxy s8+ I can't see below what I think is unarmed combat 3.

andreww 04-29-2019 01:09 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Thanks for the reports! I will be spending most of the afternoon fixing big things. Most of the recent reports are things I can fix in a few minutes as break from the big issues. I can't promise a new version tonight, but that's my hope. Certainly by later in the week.

Fuhrmanator 04-30-2019 05:06 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shroomofinsanity (Post 2258921)
I will second that toughness isnt working. Also is there a way to scroll through talents? When I pull up the other combat talents on my galaxy s8+ I can't see below what I think is unarmed combat 3.

I had this problem on my S9. I had set the system font to be something larger than default, because my eyes are not those of a 20 year old :-) Setting it back to the default (tiny) font fixed many of the problems with the app's display. Talents fit on one screen, etc.

Sadly, those fonts are global settings, so I have to go back and change them when I want to use the rest of my phone (esp. facebook).

The TFT helper app should not break (have text go off the screen without being able to scroll to it) if someone changes the Android default font settings. Given that most of us are 50+ years old, we're very likely to increase the font size on our phones from the default.

Helborn 04-30-2019 06:47 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuhrmanator (Post 2258651)
The bug with carrying over dx penalty still exists. See the proof below.

It's never too late for unit tests! I wrote a bunch for melee before, but probably not in the language you're using? If the app is free, you can consider open sourcing the code?

http://i.imgur.com/PZzCAM2.jpg

Edit: here's some source for a sample unit-test (hope you can get the idea) that asserts that no dx penalty occurs at the start of the round, that it exists after the hero takes 5 hits, and that it persists for at least an entire round:

dexPenaltyLastsOneCompleteRound: function (o) {
assert(o.hero.sufferingDexPenalty()).not();
o.hero.takeHits(5);
assert(o.hero.sufferingDexPenalty());
o.hero.newRound();
assert(o.hero.damageTakenThisRound()).equals(0);
assert(o.hero.sufferingDexPenalty());
o.hero.newRound();
assert(o.hero.sufferingDexPenalty()).not();
},


The "takeHits" needs to be >=5
The "damageTakenThisRound()).equals(0) is incorrect because the DX penalty exists regardless of how much damage is taken or not taken.
Also, the penalty is only supposed to exist from one action phase to the next.

I haven't see how you define "newRound" but I think it needs clarification.


Char A takes action, then suffers 5 hits. Next turn, takes another 5 hits before he can act, DX penalty is only -2 though 10 points of damage was taken over 2 turns. And he is not knocked down and, unless his ST is now 3 or less, does not suffer the additional -3 DX penalty.

andreww 04-30-2019 08:12 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
I found and fixed the problem with Toughness, it will be fixed in the next version.

There are lots of places where the fonts are the wrong size. That means that some menus go off the bottom of the page, skills and spells can overrun their box, and if race and type become too wide they make that info line wrap and the character card artwork gets pushed down and nothing lines up. And many things look silly on tablets. All this is connected and will be fixed in the next version. Thanks to those who have pointed out specific instances! If you see something along these lines that is well out of the way that is still worth mentioning, but if it's something I just mentioned or something pretty obvious you don't need to bother describing it for now.

I still can't recreate NaN for spiked shield damage, so if anyone sees that it would be helpful to know exactly when it happens. That might be a good time for a screen shot.

I have tonight and tomorrow AM to work on these and the combat timing issues, so I *hope* to have a new version by midday tomorrow. No promises at this point, I don't want to waste everyone's time with a new version before I've fixed the most aggravating problems.

Thanks everyone!

hcobb 04-30-2019 08:24 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Did you fix the bug with spider striking back on the same turn it's flipped over by a shield rush?

Allensh 04-30-2019 09:26 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
When I get slept by a Wizard the continue button does not work

Allen

andreww 04-30-2019 09:48 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Have not fixed the spider thing, but it will be done in the next version. I am also a little unhappy with a spider being "knocked down". I think the message in that case should be "flipped over". Does that make sense to everyone else?

That's just superficial, though. The spider needs to lose it's next attack...

andreww 05-02-2019 07:00 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Allensh (Post 2259597)
When I get slept by a Wizard the continue button does not work

Allen

Hmmm. The only wizard currently using the sleep spell is not actually in the game. I really want to include that wizard, but haven't had time to finish coding him. So that wizard should not appear. I have fixed the continue button so that it will work, but how did you ever encounter that wizard? In the arena or the adventure? I think your random number generator did a weird, weird thing.

So thanks for pointing out the problem with the continue button, and congratulations on encountering that wizard. No one else has seen him yet, though hopefully they'll make it into the product at some point.

Fuhrmanator 05-05-2019 01:16 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Helborn (Post 2259571)
The "takeHits" needs to be >=5

Correct, but this test is at the lower bound (boundary testing).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helborn (Post 2259571)
The "damageTakenThisRound()).equals(0) is incorrect because the DX penalty exists regardless of how much damage is taken or not taken.

At the start of a new round damage taken should be 0.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helborn (Post 2259571)
Also, the penalty is only supposed to exist from one action phase to the next.

Can you cite a rule please to back your assertion?

hcobb 05-05-2019 01:23 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
ITL 118: "A figure that takes 5 or more hits in one turn has its DX adjusted -2 for its next action (spell, attack, etc.)."

So that can be either this turn (for a low-DX figure), or next turn (for a high-DX figure). Or years from now if you slip a Freeze item on the victim.

andreww 05-07-2019 12:44 AM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hcobb (Post 2260695)
ITL 118: "A figure that takes 5 or more hits in one turn has its DX adjusted -2 for its next action (spell, attack, etc.)."

So that can be either this turn (for a low-DX figure), or next turn (for a high-DX figure). Or years from now if you slip a Freeze item on the victim.

It could be a turn or three later, as written. So you smack someone for 8, knock them down. Next turn they get up, but you disengage, third turn they step forward and smack you, *that* is there next action, it gets the -2 DX. I suppose that means if they chase you for a while before swinging it could be any number of turns. If I were GMing in person I would likely cut it off after two or three turns depending on which way I was trying to push the combat, or come up with a colorful reason why someone is still disoriented a little.

Anyway, thanks for your patience, everyone, new version soon. Lots of changes.

Allensh 05-07-2019 01:30 AM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by andreww (Post 2260105)
Hmmm. The only wizard currently using the sleep spell is not actually in the game. I really want to include that wizard, but haven't had time to finish coding him. So that wizard should not appear. I have fixed the continue button so that it will work, but how did you ever encounter that wizard? In the arena or the adventure? I think your random number generator did a weird, weird thing.

So thanks for pointing out the problem with the continue button, and congratulations on encountering that wizard. No one else has seen him yet, though hopefully they'll make it into the product at some point.

If I go far enough I run into "sleep wizard" and pretty much everytime he puts me to sleep. Then a black background with red lettering appears that says:

"You are overcome by profound sleepiness.

And wizards carry daggers".

and then the Continue button that does not work.

hcobb 05-07-2019 07:08 AM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by andreww (Post 2261068)
It could be a turn or three later, as written. So you smack someone for 8, knock them down. Next turn they get up, but you disengage, third turn they step forward and smack you, *that* is there next action, it gets the -2 DX.

Stand Up is an action, and can face a DX roll, which would be modified in this case.

ITL 102: "STAND UP. Rise from prone, kneeling, or knocked down position at the end of the combat phase, or crawl 2 hexes; take no other action" [Other than this Stand Up action]

ITL 26: "and even if a figure simply stands still in a slippery hex, it must make the saving roll to avoid falling." [At the adjusted DX level.]

Heck even running at full MA or dodging at half MA can count as a figure's action for that turn.

For programming purposes I'd set a flag with three states:

A: No penalty: default state. When five hits are taken in a single blow go to B.

B: -2 DX. When the figure takes an action go to C.

C: -2 DX. When the end of a turn is reached go to A.

andreww 05-07-2019 11:29 AM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Why does the -2 DX state persist after you have taken an action?

Currently it just lasts until the next die roll. Once a character has suffered the -2 DX penalty on one roll it's gone.

RobW 05-07-2019 01:53 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by andreww (Post 2261068)
It could be a turn or three later, as written. So you smack someone for 8, knock them down. Next turn they get up, but you disengage, third turn they step forward and smack you, *that* is there next action, it gets the -2 DX. I suppose that means if they chase you for a while before swinging it could be any number of turns.

I don’t think this is correct. For one, actions do not only involve dice rolls. Disengage, change weapons, etc are actions. The -2 penalty would affect when these actions happen. Second, the wording was discussed by SJ in the forum here (I think!), seeking to resolve whether the penalty applied for the remainder of the current turn, in which case a high DX figure wouldn’t care; or did it last until end of next turn, in which case low DX figure gets penalised twice; or next action, meaning the next opportunity to act. That way everyone is affected similarly.

It seems to me this penalty reflects a brief stun effect, not a potential everlasting latent curse. So to speak!

hcobb 05-07-2019 02:27 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
My suggestion is to lift the effect at the end of the turn the player's next action occurs in. This way we don't reopen when exactly a dodge happens, etc.

Other edge cases would be things like agile archer recovering his second shot for that turn after taking the penalty on his first shot and so on.

andreww 05-07-2019 09:21 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Can anyone link to SJ's comments in the other thread?

I was taking "next action" to mean "next die roll", but I suppose if the character's next action did not require a die roll the penalty would go away without having any effect.

RobW 05-08-2019 02:32 AM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Try this thread maybe
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=158586

andreww 05-10-2019 01:26 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
I have been working feverishly on the third beta version, but it won't be released this morning as I hoped because I *really* value your time. Your comments have been *extremely* helpful. If I release a version with known, visible issues you'll spend your time on those, which I know about. I need you to find the stuff I can't find, so I don't want to waste your precious testing time poking at stuff I already see. Wearing out your beta testers is bad!

The combat sequencing is re-written and largely tested. It's actually more fun this way, though I want to refine some of the messaging (eg the log should show that you renewed spells, etc). I have definitely learned that a wizard going up against a fighter better not blow their first couple of spell rolls. It's hard to test whether Dazzle correctly affects a summoned wolf while you're getting hammered with a morning star.

I am still having a little trouble with formatting on tablets. I'll be working on that today and tomorrow, and hopefully get the next beta approved by Apple on Monday (Android testers will see it immediately).

The good news is there will be some new goodies. I don't want to let the cats out of the bag at this point, but there should be a couple new things to see.

Meanwhile, let me know how you're doing in the adventure. Don't post spoilers! During the adventure the upper right corner shows a number in a blue box. That is the location number. You can report how far you got, and especially if you got out. But if you spot an issue with a particular trap or opponent message me directly. Otherwise when we release people will be perusing this thread for cheats!

Anyway, thanks for your efforts and your patience, wish me luck and look for a new version Monday.

PBarone714 05-10-2019 03:56 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
When I try to download the TFT Helper app foe iOS, I get an icon on my phone, but it doesnít display download.

andreww 05-10-2019 05:24 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PBarone714 (Post 2261990)
When I try to download the TFT Helper app foe iOS, I get an icon on my phone, but it doesnít display download.

The existing beta version should still download and run. It's probably more useful to wait for the new one, but this shouldn't be happening which means the new one might have the same issue. Do you have Test Flight installed? You might try deleting the app and installing it again.

Fuhrmanator 05-11-2019 04:03 AM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hcobb (Post 2260695)
ITL 118: "A figure that takes 5 or more hits in one turn has its DX adjusted -2 for its next action (spell, attack, etc.)."

So that can be either this turn (for a low-DX figure), or next turn (for a high-DX figure). Or years from now if you slip a Freeze item on the victim.

Interesting -- is this the latest ITL, or before SJG rewrote it (I don't have the newest version).

Because original Melee (c.f. Reactions to injury) said "A figure which takes 5 or more hits in one turn has its DX adjusted -2 for the NEXT turn (only)," we always played it that a low-DX figure often got -2 DX after the higher DX attack caused 5 or more hits, as well as -2 for the next turn. It wouldn't make sense to say the penalty didn't apply THIS turn (i.e., the turn where the figure was attacked before his action came), since an injury had an affect immediately.

Anyway, it's how I coded the unit test in my melee simulator.

If this is a new rule, then it surely makes combat less deadly.

Rules (like software) need concrete scenarios (use-cases) to add clarification. The tests in software portray expected behavior concretely (and expose ambiguities in the requirements or the implementation of the requirements). A test can be "wrong" because the requirements weren't clear, or because the test was coded wrong.

I'd almost argue that rules need to be demonstrated by a set of scenarios to illustrate their scope, kind of like the examples of Flavius and Wulf (which are very incomplete examples). Several things prevent that from happening:
  1. it costs too much to write all the scenarios,
  2. fixing the inconsistencies that crop up (debugging) would prevent games from ever being published (much like most video games today have tons of bugs in their first release), and
  3. there's probably a market value to ambiguity in rules -- there's buzz created in forums on the internet like this thread -- although SJ would probably never confirm or deny that ;-)

Bon courage to Andrew!

RobW 05-11-2019 05:24 AM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuhrmanator (Post 2262110)
[*]there's probably a market value to ambiguity in rules -- there's buzz created in forums on the internet like this thread -- although SJ would probably never confirm or deny that ;-)

Well, the SJ moderators actively discourage this particular kind of buzz.

GlennDoren 05-11-2019 05:16 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
I registered for the iOS beta a couple weeks ago, but never received an invite. Is that just a decision to keep the testing group size small, or an oversight on your end? Let me know--I'm eager to test it out :)

andreww 05-11-2019 11:02 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
I haven't uploaded the latest iOS applications because I want folks to wait for the new version. You'll get an invite and have access Monday, if everything goes well. I didn't want to waste your testing time when I had plenty to work on. Your testing time will be much better spent on the new version. Thanks for your patience!

GlennDoren 05-12-2019 12:48 AM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Sounds good. Thanks Andrew. Looking forward to it :)

andreww 05-14-2019 06:16 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Is it possible people who saw NaN for damage had a shield in the *upper* weapon slot?

Obviously the logic checked to see if you had a shield in slot 1 and a weapon in slot 2 and reversed them, but some *other* logic after that reset the weapons. That I have now fixed, and if that is what was causing people to see NaN as damage then that bug should be dead. Otherwise I have not seen NaN for damage.

If people do see that in the future there will be a better way to capture and transmit what happened back to me. More later. I have been hours away from releasing 0.9.2 for nine days, and now I'm *really* almost there.

tomc 05-14-2019 06:30 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by andreww (Post 2262912)
Is it possible people who saw NaN for damage had a shield in the *upper* weapon slot?

I saw NaN for damage. I'm not positive I had a shield in the upper slot, but it's likely. I just looked at my character and the shield is in the upper slot now, and I'm getting NaN for damage. When I switch the sword to the upper slot and the shield to the lower, I get normal damage as expected.

Remember: "The first 90% of the project is 90% of the work. The last 10% of the project is also 90% of the work."

andreww 05-15-2019 12:45 AM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
TL;DR - many things fixed, everything should fit nicely on all devices now, combat sequencing is fixed. Go find out if those two things are true! There are new opponents with pole weapons and crossbows and some other cool stuff. You can fight the gargoyle on the original cover. Try not to post any spoilers to the forum.

Longer version: partial list of things fixed is at the bottom if itís important. Obviously if you spot a problem report it, it doesnít matter if I think itís fixed. The Android back button should take you to the main menu, I think that is the proper behavior.

The other thing to watch out for is reaching a point in the arena or the adventure where there are no buttons for the next step. I think this is all fixed. If you see it, be sure to distinguish between two different bugs: in one the buttons are off the bottom of the screen, if you drag up you will see them; in the other version there are no buttons. If there are no buttons, let me know that, and try to sum up what just happened. If the buttons are there you can report the issue with the new combat log transmission tool!

In order to make it easy for you to give me more complete information I added another beta-only feature. Way down at the end of the combat narration on the left hand side youíll see a red symbol, possibly just a box depending on your device. If you tap this itís a sharing button, it will transmit your character and the combat log. If you run into a problem no easily replicated send them by email to Andrew punctuation scourge of the galaxy at gmail. Sending it to others will only annoy them, but to me, along with a short description of the misbehavior, itís gold.

Specifically, any time you see NaN for damage or any time events occur out of order. If you can describe what happened completely in one sentence in the forum do that, but if you need to send me the whole log, this button will do that. Donít necessarily send me the log to report something easily described or recreated, but definitely send it for NaN or ďno buttonĒ situations. It is probably not necessary to post any logs to the forums, it will just be clutter.

Similarly, if any menus run off the screen or things donít appear in their proper place you can send a screen shot if you like but if itís just as easy to describe where you were and what you saw, do that. Currently some spells and talents make their menus wrap, so you donít have to report that.

I was hoping this would be the next to last version, but there are still some serious things to fix. With lots of good testing here progress should speed up.

Iím pretty satisfied about the saved data. If anyone has a device with very modest storage and you want to give this a try, fill your memory with video or something and then play with the app. I want to make sure that characters and adventure progress are safe. Then delete the excess video so your device is stable again. I would love to hear from even just two iOS and two Android people who can try this. No one should feel obligated, but if you want to give this a try it would be appreciated.

Yoltac is in the arena only temporarily so we can test him. He should be very difficult to defeat. Let me know if you think heís too easy or too hard.

Iím curious how far people are able to get in the adventure. Itís not complete, but your comments will be helpful. Please donít post spoilers are anything that would amount to a walk-through. Instead, thereís a location number in a blue box in the upper right hand corner. You can report your progress in terms of those numbers. Itís probably too easy to get out right now, but letís see.

Thanks for reading this far, here is your reward: Sometimes when Iím designing a game I make it easier for myself to test the higher levels, or in this case the further parts of the adventure. If there were such a thing in this app it would likely interfere with the combat system, so if you used them donít bother reporting any combat bugs, just issues with the adventure itself.

Known Issues
Some Talents and Spells make their menus wrap in a most ugly way
Play screen die roll buttons on some devices
Help Screen Text is still placeholders
Help screen should distinguish between phases of combat
Sometimes canít change weapons when not engaged
Extreme results for 4 and 5-die rolls are not present
Not all situations in the adventure give appropriate XP rewards
Reference table headers donít quite line up


Fixed in 0.9.2
Tables Formatting
Combat Sequencing
Menus going past bottom of screen
Long character race+type pushing artwork down
Spiders stood up too quickly
Sleep continue button didnít
ST/Inj/Fat/Remaining overran small char sheet
UC should not work with a shield
Pole weapons
Combat doesnít always scroll down as far as it should
Goblin archer keeps shooting when adjacent


Fixed in 0.9.1
Goblins
Android Back Button
ď2+5+=7Ē in die roller
Adding a high level staff spell adds the lower instead of giving an error

FrankB 05-15-2019 07:10 AM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
New download link for android?

Received an email for IOS only last night...

andreww 05-15-2019 09:52 AM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
The same download link will always get you the latest version:

https://build.phonegap.com/apps/3270672

Meanwhile, the Decks of Destiny are currently at $77,777!

I really want that second playmat.

andreww 05-15-2019 10:18 AM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
Apologies to iOS testers, 0.9.2 is not actually available yet. It's awaiting Apple approval, which I expect later this morning. I got *two* emails acknowledging the upload so I thought it was up. But there was a box I had to check promising foreign countries that I wasn't using encryption. I also forgot to add all the testers to this build. Lots of steps. I *think* you'll get a notification "soon" that 0.9.2 is available.

I also think I told Apple to notify all beta testers about the new version, not just the iOS users. Sorry for that spam.

Shroomofinsanity 05-16-2019 07:21 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
I know this is not anywhere near the most important thing right now, but will you have a way to make above 32 point characters that can play in the app adventures or arena combats? I have been hankering for a full power martial artist to test and that's not possible as far as I can see currently.

Edit: an actual bug maybe; when I click on the grizzly bear it sets me against brant, and the polar bear sets me against Fuller.

andreww 05-16-2019 09:00 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
The two problems with characters beyond 32 points are 1) not all those talents and spells are actually implemented. Unarmed combat is, but many won't be. 2) and more importantly, the adventure and arena are sort of balanced for 32 point characters. The plan was for a simple adventure to help people learn the system, and then it slowly got out of hand. The arena, for example, was more or less invented to test combat, but then I thought, why not? It's fun, let's try to clean it up and keep it.

If I had time the Arena could allow overpowered characters, warning you about talents and spells that won't work, and allowing you to challenge only powerful foes - bears, trolls, giants. That could be neat. Maybe I'll throw that into 1.1.

That said, a clever programmer might have snuck in a way to get illegal characters into the adventure to allow people to get further into the sewers. For testing. At some point I will let the cat out of the bag so people can hack there way through the adventure and test the parts you're unlikely to reach without help.

Thanks for the Bears/Fuller/Brant catch. I'm surprised, but I know where to look.

Edit: Bears/Fuller/Brant is fixed in the code, so it will be correct in the next version.

Shroomofinsanity 05-16-2019 11:16 PM

Re: TFT Helper - beta test of app
 
I totally get your reasonings for disallowing over 32 point characters, especially right now.

I'm glad I helped catch the bears for you.

A couple other things, crossbows seem to not be working from the player side. After I get a shot off in the arena, I click to roll initiative for the next round and there is no more text below that.

I've also had general glitching, such as defeating enemies, clearing the character, and then looking at the selection screen for the arena and the sewers and still having the clear character option at the bottom.


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