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-   -   Cost Of Enchanting In Real Worlds Value (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=159916)

scc 09-29-2018 04:28 AM

Cost Of Enchanting In Real Worlds Value
 
I said I was going to do this, so here it, an analysis of how much it would cost to gets things enchanted, using real world pricing. Specifically I'll be running the math on how much it costs to enchant a full body suit of armor or outfit to Fortify +5, a process that takes 33 hours spread across 3 days.

This requires a LOT of opening remarks.
  1. I'm assuming that the ritual itself and any Powerstone recharging takes place in a high mana area.
  2. That the Raise Cone of Power spell is used where it would make energy costs cheaper.
  3. Enchanters are paid $50 an hour, dancing girls for Raise Cone of Power are paid $15. Overtime his paid after the first 8 hours, time and a half for the first 2 hours and then double time for the rest.
  4. The costs for Powerstones have been recalculated, assuming that the materials costs remain the same.
  5. I'm not worrying about modifiers for all the people that are going to present when spells are cast. That said I am going to keep them inside a range where they might actually be possible.
  6. Numbers are going to be picked for nice, round values, not necessarily for min-maxing the cost
  7. Mages have reasonable FP and ER of 13 each, so they can provide up to 25 energy for a spell normally
  8. That this is these people's days job when realistically it isn't given the prices.
  9. The break point between using Powerstones and hiring dancers is at 16 energy, before that Powerstones are cheaper, more then that you should hire dancers rather then using larger Powerstones, this 'costs' $28.39 per Powerstone.
  10. Mages generate 4 energy per hour for Raise Cone of Power, Dancers provide 8 energy per hour.

First day involves 20 Mages spending 4 hours to enchant the suit to Fortify +3, this requires 800 energy and the Cone of Power they've raised contains 320, so they have to provide 480 between them which they can, lying down for a nap.
Cost: 4*20*50=$4,000

Second day: Increasing the enchantment to Fortify +4 requires 2,200 energy, 25 Mages can do this in 9 hours. They raise a 900 energy Cone of Power and can provide 625 energy from their personal reverses, that's 1,525 energy, with a further 675 required. One 16 point Powerstone each is a further 400 energy, 275 still needed, which 35 hours of dancing will provide.
Costs:
Hours (mages): 8 hours NT, 1 hour T.5, is 9.5 hours pay. 9.5*25*50=$11,875
Hours (dancers): 35*15=$525
Powerstones: 25*28.39=709.79
Subtotal:$13,109.79
Running Total:$17,109.79

Third day: Increasing the enchantment to Fortify +5 takes a further 5,000 energy and it takes 25 mages 20 HOURS to do this, this lengthy process means they can only provide 24 energy each, as they've lost 2 FP to lost sleep. Cone of Power is at 2,000 energy, Mages personally provide 600 and Powerstones provide 400, so a further 2,000 from dancing is needed, which takes 250 hours.
Costs:
Hours (mages): 8 hours NT, 2 hours T.5, and 10 hours DT = 31 hours pay. 31*25*50=$38,750.00
Hours (dancers): 250*15=$3,750.00
Powerstones: 25*28.39=709.79
Sub-total:$43,209.79

Grand Total: $60,319.59

Yes, that's a LOT of money!!

Culture20 09-29-2018 09:01 AM

Re: Cost Of Enchanting In Real Worlds Value
 
Break the armor pieces into sections for piecemeal enchantment costs for extra cheese.

PTTG 09-30-2018 01:12 AM

Re: Cost Of Enchanting In Real Worlds Value
 
Compare that to the sorts of VIPs that one would usually put into body armor, and it makes a lot of sense. $60k to keep the president protected from assassination attempts -- or even just a high-ranking officer on the battlefield -- isn't too outlandish.

Minuteman37 10-02-2018 05:18 AM

Re: Cost Of Enchanting In Real Worlds Value
 
Depends on the TL, this is using modern current pay in a western country. +5 DR here where the typical weapon is around 5d pi and advanced body armor provides 25 DR isn't remotely the same as a setting where typical damage is about 2d cut and full plate is 5 DR.

Change Fortify to raise DR by a parentage and then it can definitely become worthwhile to spend 60k on a suit.

Bruno 10-02-2018 11:34 AM

Re: Cost Of Enchanting In Real Worlds Value
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Minuteman37 (Post 2213184)
Depends on the TL, this is using modern current pay in a western country. +5 DR here where the typical weapon is around 5d pi and advanced body armor provides 25 DR isn't remotely the same as a setting where typical damage is about 2d cut and full plate is 5 DR.

+5 DR for zero weight and restriction in mobility on a regular divers suit or prison guards uniform would be amazing. Not sure how many prisons would pay for it, but for a shark-suit, nice. Expensive, but zero weight and drastic increase in protection (from shark bites as well as from coral abrasion, irritable spiky sea creatures, etc). Even if you go ahead and put shark mail over it, it's going to be a big help for reducing the severe bruising after being bitten hard.

It'd even be worth it for bomb disposal techs on super-thin rubber gloves and face protection - they'd be one use because after any damage they'd be useless, but reducing chance of crippling injury to your bomb techs is really worth it.

a humble lich 10-02-2018 03:46 PM

Re: Cost Of Enchanting In Real Worlds Value
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Minuteman37 (Post 2213184)
Depends on the TL, this is using modern current pay in a western country. +5 DR here where the typical weapon is around 5d pi and advanced body armor provides 25 DR isn't remotely the same as a setting where typical damage is about 2d cut and full plate is 5 DR.

Change Fortify to raise DR by a parentage and then it can definitely become worthwhile to spend 60k on a suit.

Even at TL 8, while it it clearly less useful than at TL 3, an extra +5 DR to armor for no weight can be quite useful. For a armored vest, that means the vest goes from being vulnerable to rifles to being fairly resistant to a 5d rifle. The advanced DR 25 armor when enchanted is able to resist anti material rifles. For protection for VIPs or special ops this seems useful.

Also, 3e Vehicles changes fortify to be a percentage of total DR (at least for vehicular armor). I would be willing to use those rules for most high tech magic games.

scc 10-11-2018 02:49 AM

Re: Cost Of Enchanting In Real Worlds Value
 
Sorry for the late replies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Culture20 (Post 2212335)
Break the armor pieces into sections for piecemeal enchantment costs for extra cheese.

You don't want to do this, advances in fabric technology mean that we can make really good flexible outfits, a Power Rangers suit or a ninja suit where you climb in one of the eyes would make you immune to the chinks in armor rule.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PTTG (Post 2212603)
Compare that to the sorts of VIPs that one would usually put into body armor, and it makes a lot of sense. $60k to keep the president protected from assassination attempts -- or even just a high-ranking officer on the battlefield -- isn't too outlandish.

Keep in mind that the $60K figure represents a low ball as it only accounts for labor, retail figure at least $100K, minimum, so even a billion dollars only buys 10,000 sets, and to get the most out of something like this you'd need a version that provides force field DR issued to every trooper (metal shard that does only a single point of damage to your eye is enough to down check, if not kill, a soldier)

Quote:

Originally Posted by a humble lich (Post 2213405)
Even at TL 8, while it it clearly less useful than at TL 3, an extra +5 DR to armor for no weight can be quite useful. For a armored vest, that means the vest goes from being vulnerable to rifles to being fairly resistant to a 5d rifle. The advanced DR 25 armor when enchanted is able to resist anti material rifles. For protection for VIPs or special ops this seems useful.

Um, what?

Bruno 10-11-2018 09:54 AM

Re: Cost Of Enchanting In Real Worlds Value
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scc (Post 2215366)
Um, what?

"+5 DR is great when you're talking light concealed armor"

The Colonel 10-11-2018 10:08 AM

Re: Cost Of Enchanting In Real Worlds Value
 
5 DR would also do well for anyone worried about being stabbed - could well be a common enchantment for celebs and similar people worried about being nutters with blades. Probably go a long way to improving survivability during IED attacks - won't stop a direct hit, but should keep out random splinters which could otherwise prove life threatening.

mr beer 10-11-2018 05:23 PM

Re: Cost Of Enchanting In Real Worlds Value
 
DR 5 is basically punch, kick and stab proof, right? Also highly effective against light pistol rounds and shot. Better than nothing against heavier firearms.

That's pretty sweet protection for a T shirt or a silk scarf.

The Colonel 10-11-2018 06:35 PM

Re: Cost Of Enchanting In Real Worlds Value
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mr beer (Post 2215508)
DR 5 is basically punch, kick and stab proof, right? Also highly effective against light pistol rounds and shot. Better than nothing against heavier firearms.

That's pretty sweet protection for a T shirt or a silk scarf.

Might struggle with punches and kicks if it's flexible but otherwise, yes.

Pope Uncommon the Dainty 10-20-2018 12:35 AM

Re: Cost Of Enchanting In Real Worlds Value
 
According to this infographic, $60,319.59 is the equivalent of equipping about three and a half typical US soldiers and a little bit more than 1/14th the cost of a cruise missile. Wow, soldiers cost a lot less that I thought, considering that more than half of our budget goes to the military.

Of course, as was pointed out, the retail price would be around 100 kilodollars. That's almost five and three-quarters soldiers and just shy of 1/8th a cruise missile

The same infographic provides some markers for comparison, so I can add that the same amount is
  • almost a quarter again (125%) of one year average U.S. annual household income (or two years of income, at retail prices),
  • enough to put two and seven-eighths people through a four-year college education (or about 5 people at retail prices),
  • four families' worth of average family health insurance plans (gained through an employer) (six and three-eighths at retail prices),
  • about a quarter of the median sales price of a new house sold in the U.S. (almost half at retail prices)

That's cheap enough that only a small percentage of soldiers will have this kind of armor, but it is unlikely to be difficult for any soldier to call in the special unit that is, I would imagine. I'm no soldier (pacifist anarchists tend not to do well in the military), so I can't say exact numbers, but I imagine any military base would be likely to have, what, mebbe a dozen or two such soldiers at any time? That would cost the same as 42-84 (or 69-138) regular soldiers.

The police, on the other hand, would seem to merit only a handful of officers equipped suchly, but they've also been the dumping ground for military equipment since well before the Battle for Seattle 19 years ago (I did say I was an anarchist), so I'd imagine that about half the bomb squad and half SWAT, maybe, might have inherited military surplus enchanted armor . . . .


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