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-   -   I smell a Rat + Halls of Justice (spoilers for the former) (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=160505)

corwyn 11-06-2018 01:36 AM

I smell a Rat + Halls of Justice (spoilers for the former)
 
So I'm using the grapple rules from HoJ. I'm approaching the finale against Merle and I'm looking for ways to make the fight not trivial in roughly 2 turns by a Wrestler with grappling ST 28 and enough control points to apply -16 to DX in one successful grapple. Obviously without making the wrestler useless. However, I'm not above making the Wrestler falling back to weapon use since he did single-handedly turn the fight on the sword-golem already.

Merle doesn't seem to have any counter to this while his Unkillable suggests that the fight is to last awhile.

evileeyore 11-06-2018 02:55 AM

Re: I smell a Rat + Halls of Justice (spoilers for the former)
 
So... I'm guessing the 3d burning Gaze attack (which is Will based and not DX based) isn't enough?


[EDIT]
Ennn! Sorry, it's a Gaze attack, clearly Per based. My bad.
[/EDIT]

DouglasCole 11-06-2018 08:08 AM

Re: I smell a Rat + Halls of Justice (spoilers for the former)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by corwyn (Post 2220562)
So I'm using the grapple rules from HoJ. I'm approaching the finale against Merle and I'm looking for ways to make the fight not trivial in roughly 2 turns by a Wrestler with grappling ST 28 and enough control points to apply -16 to DX in one successful grapple. Obviously without making the wrestler useless. However, I'm not above making the Wrestler falling back to weapon use since he did single-handedly turn the fight on the sword-golem already.

Merle doesn't seem to have any counter to this while his Unkillable suggests that the fight is to last awhile.

I'm not familiar with that fight off the top of my head - is there a way to prevent your Wrestler from instantly closing the distance? The way to not get killed by a grapple-hero is to not get grappled, not beat them at their own game.

Even so: can you do a grease-type spell? Or literal oil/slippery stuff? Essential oil of slipperiness? Something that gives DR against grappling? That's a cheat, but this is the Dungeon Fantasy RPG: monsters get to cheat.

zuljita 11-06-2018 08:13 AM

Re: I smell a Rat + Halls of Justice (spoilers for the former)
 
Merle should behave like a scout in that he has no incentive to stay still and should move away from the party every turn. The wrestler should have to move and attack to attempt a grapple (capped at 9).

zuljita 11-06-2018 08:15 AM

Re: I smell a Rat + Halls of Justice (spoilers for the former)
 
Thinking on it, doesn't Merle have an extremity high parry? He can use that versus grapple attempts too.

evileeyore 11-06-2018 03:23 PM

Re: I smell a Rat + Halls of Justice (spoilers for the former)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by zuljita (Post 2220607)
Thinking on it, doesn't Merle have an extremity high parry? He can use that versus grapple attempts too.

No, it's a 12 and it's his Gaze attack.

Keep in mind, he's a scrub tier Boss meant to go out to a bunch 250 point guys.


If blasting the Wrestler with a 3d burning Gaze attack that the Wrestler is hard pressed to defend against isn't enough, I'd just give him a 1d/2 touch-based FP attack that is 'reversible', ie if Merle is touched* the attacker loses 1-3 FP (also if for some reason Merle decides to slap someone with his DX 10 'brawling' attack).

Two to three turns in and the Wrestler will be considering letting Merle go.



* Real, actual weapon attacks don't count, the Wrestler's 'weaponized' arms (and body) are fair game.

Note, this is exactly how my GM keeps my ST 30 Barbarian Ogress Wrestler "on her toes", he gives his rougher undead FP draining touch attacks. Which just means she reaches for her skill 14 mace (which actually does more damage than her wrestling... it's just less fun for me).

Anthony 11-06-2018 03:45 PM

Re: I smell a Rat + Halls of Justice (spoilers for the former)
 
I'm not sure Merle is all that much less vulnerable to grappling in vanilla, it just takes slightly longer.

Turn 1: grapple. Merle is at -4 to DX, so he can still blast pretty well.
Turn 2: all-out attack for Takedown and Pin. Merle has ST 9 and DX 10 available to resist, so any ordinarily competent wrestler should win both rolls easily.

If you want to make him more resistant, I'd give him an aura or emanation (neither of which has an attack roll, so DX penalties don't matter).

evileeyore 11-06-2018 04:01 PM

Re: I smell a Rat + Halls of Justice (spoilers for the former)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 2220699)
I'm not sure Merle is all that much less vulnerable to grappling in vanilla, it just takes slightly longer.

Neither of which (Basic or TG) stop him from blasting, he's just at a -4. All being grappled does is make it slightly harder to hit with his blast and effectively stop his Dodge, which at an 8 was nothing to write home about anyway.

Anthony 11-06-2018 04:30 PM

Re: I smell a Rat + Halls of Justice (spoilers for the former)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by evileeyore (Post 2220704)
Neither of which (Basic or TG) stop him from blasting, he's just at a -4.

Being pinned prevents him from blasting. TG can just reduce his DX by enough that he'll never hit.

evileeyore 11-07-2018 12:07 AM

Re: I smell a Rat + Halls of Justice (spoilers for the former)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anthony (Post 2220707)
Being pinned prevents him from blasting. TG can just reduce his DX by enough that he'll never hit.

The Gaze attack isn't based on DX.

As for not being able to Gaze attack while pinned? Yeah... I'd rule Merle can gaze to his shriveled heart's content.


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