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-   -   No Mention of Hireling Before Munchkin 4? (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=99962)

Waltron 11-14-2012 02:19 AM

No Mention of Hireling Before Munchkin 4?
 
As a fairly new player to munchkin myself, I am attempting to introduce it to my group as close to the printed paper rules as possible. With so many new players, everyone wants to "see" where it states a rule. The problem I have run into on multiple occasions is the omission of important information in the actual rules (included with game or updated via printed pdf). For the longest time, we were playing multiple hirelings until one of us heard that you could only have one.

So I am left wondering, why is nothing about the hireling mentioned in the Munchkin 1/Munchkin Deluxe rules?

Is there a nice looking comprehensive list of rules somewhere that can be printed?

Thanks in advance.

Andrew Hackard 11-14-2012 04:47 AM

Re: No Mention of Hireling Before Munchkin 4?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Waltron (Post 1475716)
So I am left wondering, why is nothing about the hireling mentioned in the Munchkin 1/Munchkin Deluxe rules?

Because there's only one in that set.

Clipper 11-14-2012 06:05 AM

Re: No Mention of Hireling Before Munchkin 4?
 
There's a second in Munchkin 3, too.

If you are playing with those two sets alone, there is no mention that you can only have one of the two Hirelings in play simultaneously. There's also no mention of the Hireling sacrifice rule for an automatic escape in those two sets. The text on the card is there for sacrificing them, but that text implies you can only run away from one monster rather than from all of them, as per the general Hireling rule. Not big problems really, but perhaps worth noting as it is a bit difficult to prove those rules should be used when you are only using sets 1-3.

Waltron, there is no official full set of rules that has been provided, although I do summarise all the rules that aren't found in the base Munchkin rule set within my Checklist document (see my sig). Everything I have in there can be traced back to an official rulebook or an officially answered thread on the forum.

Andrew Hackard 11-14-2012 06:11 AM

Re: No Mention of Hireling Before Munchkin 4?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Clipper (Post 1475777)
Not big problems really, but perhaps worth noting as it is a bit difficult to prove those rules should be used when you are only using sets 1-3.

Those rules shouldn't be used when you're only using sets 1-3. Use the rules on the cards.

Clipper 11-14-2012 06:18 AM

Re: No Mention of Hireling Before Munchkin 4?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard (Post 1475779)
Those rules shouldn't be used when you're only using sets 1-3. Use the rules on the cards.

So can you have both in play too? In any case, there goes another long-held assumption that seemed like common sense... Time to update the Checklist, too with that info.

While we're at this, though. Some rules documents do not mention that Cheat! can be played to give you a second Hireling/Sidekick/etc. while others do. Does that mean we should not use that rule when playing only with those sets?

Edit: As examples, the rules for Sidekicks in Super Munchkin do not mention the "Sidekicks and Cheating" rule while Sidekicks in The Good, The Bad, and the Munchkin do.

Andrew Hackard 11-14-2012 07:29 AM

Re: No Mention of Hireling Before Munchkin 4?
 
As a general rule, you use the rules that appear in the sets you're playing with at any given time. If you're using a set with the full Hireling rules, those rules apply to all Hirelings. But if you aren't, don't sweat it; just use the rules on the cards you have.

The Super Munchkin thing is probably an oversight. I won't be back in the office until the 26th, though, so I'm not going to make any definitive ruling until after then. (Erik, if you want to hoist that banner and consult Steve before then, feel free, but I'm not asking you to.)

Clipper 11-14-2012 08:21 AM

Re: No Mention of Hireling Before Munchkin 4?
 
Thanks for agreeing to look into it. For reference when you follow this up, the sets that miss out the Hirelings & Cheating rule are:
  • Super Munchkin Sidekicks
  • Munchkin Axe Cop Allies
  • Munchkin Bites! Minions
  • Munchkin Fu Mooks
  • Munchkin Impossible Hirelings (the sacrifice rule isn't listed for these either)
  • Star Munchkin Sidekicks

The sets that do list the rule are:
  • Munchkin (4,5 & 8) Hirelings
  • Munchkin Conan Comrades
  • The Good, The Bad and The Munchkin Sidekicks

I also just discovered that you can change the sex of a Sidekick in TGtBatM with any card that would change a munchkin's sex. Hadn't noticed that particular set-specific rule before either...

Waltron 11-14-2012 11:09 AM

Re: No Mention of Hireling Before Munchkin 4?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard (Post 1475765)
Because there's only one in that set.

That actually makes perfect sense, we have avoided looking at all the cards to keep the thrill of a new joke. Thank you for the quick response.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clipper (Post 1475777)
If you are playing with those two sets alone, there is no mention that you can only have one of the two Hirelings in play simultaneously.

It seems that in 1-3 (which we have been playing) it is just very munchkiny behavior to be the cool kid with two hirelings. I should mention, that for some reason the munchkin gods decided that for every game we should have the only two hirelings out on the table early on, generally belonging to one player.

Also, thank you for creating that checklist, we have referenced it in the past when playing with some cthulhu friends.


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I know we encountered another rule which would benefit from clarification, however, I have no idea what it was anymore. I suppose next game we will rediscover it.

Andrew Hackard 03-27-2013 01:34 AM

Re: No Mention of Hireling Before Munchkin 4?
 
Updates:

1) Rather than clutter up a bunch of sets with rules that you have to remember, you can only play Cheat! to use an extra Hireling-type card if the rules for the games that you are using allow for it.

2) Conversely, however, if you are playing with sets that have "generic" Hirelings that do not include the "only one Hireling at a time" rule, then you may have multiple Hirelings. Lucky you, if you can pull that off. If someone plays Kill The Hireling GUAL and you have multiple Hirelings, *they* get to decide which one dies, because they're the one doing the killing.

As a more generic guideline, don't apply rules from sets you aren't playing with at the time. That is far and away the easiest thing to do.


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