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-   -   GURPS Powers: Divine Favor (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=76767)

Anders 01-28-2011 01:54 PM

Re: GURPS Powers: Divine Favor
 
Probably. Point don't really matter for general prayer, except to set what level of reaction roll is needed. So limitations should be less of a hassle as well.

Anyone else tinkering with Compartmentalized mind ("Only for prayers") to allow mroe than one prayer at once?

Stone Dog 01-28-2011 02:29 PM

Re: GURPS Powers: Divine Favor
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Asta Kask (Post 1114130)
Anyone else tinkering with Compartmentalized mind ("Only for prayers") to allow mroe than one prayer at once?

So God can get irritated at you twice as fast?

Bruno 01-28-2011 02:34 PM

Re: GURPS Powers: Divine Favor
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk (Post 1114097)
Learned prayers seem like they might be a bit too powerful for the point costs, given you can do them as often as you want at no cost.

You can only do one Learned Prayer at a time, and while you're doing those, you can't do any other prayers at all.

This makes them Not Cheap At All.

A One Prayer Cleric, who does Protection from Evil (Enhanced) all the time, has spent not only 7 points for the Prayer, but also 35 points for the Divine Favor - instead of just 33 points for the basic True Faith Reliable Turning combo.

PK 01-28-2011 03:11 PM

Re: GURPS Powers: Divine Favor
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mailanka (Post 1113981)
I really liked this one

Glad that everyone who's picked it up has enjoyed it so much! I prayed for such a response . . . :)

Quote:

I'm considering using it to replace clerical magic in Dungeon Fantasy.
That's one of the explicit things I wanted it to be able to handle -- hence the "dungeon delving" flavor to a few of the miracles (e.g., Smite).

Other important genres that I had in mind include the Deadlands setting (this is perfect for Blessed characters -- and note that cursed lands resist Consecrate Ground with effective HT equal to (Fear Level * 4)) and Monster Hunters (and yes, there are guidelines in MH1 for using Divine Favor instead of <FNORD> if you'd prefer to do so). But frankly, there shouldn't be many settings (featuring at least one interventionist god) that Divine Favor can't fit into.

Quote:

My only complaints so far is that the book focuses entirely on goody-two-shoes gods, but that's barely a quibble as the book gives me all the tools I need to make my own sets of divine powers.
I thought about trying to get really expansive with it, but then decided that it was important to keep it as simple and focused as possible. IMO, a true take on "Unholy Favor" could be its own supplement. (Note to writers: Hint, hint . . .)

Quote:

A slightly larger quibble is that I can't find the variation of Blessed in there that boosts your stats. I was kinda hoping to see what he did with that, or if that even needs to be covered by these (but he had other forms of Blessed, like the font, in the book).
Yeah, I know that's kind of weird leaving Heroic Feats out of the loop, but hear me out on this:

I played with a few different builds of Heroic Feats and simply could not come up with two miracles (a normal + an Enhanced) that felt like the definitive ones. For example, I considered doing a 10 point (boost one attribute) and a 30 point (boost all three), then thought about doing a 30 points (+1d to all three) and a 60-point (+2d), and then several more. In the end, I decided that the "best" combination of the two would depend on the GM.

So then it occurs to me that if I leave Heroic Feats as an obvious omission, it gives the reader/GM an easy opening to build his very first custom Learned Prayer! In other words, this is an advantage for which it is simultaneously (A) very easy to build a prayer from, yet (B) something everyone will want to take a slightly different approach to. When I realized that, I decided to consciously leave it off. So, while that may or may not have been a smart move, it was at least a willing one. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruno (Post 1114142)
You can only do one Learned Prayer at a time, and while you're doing those, you can't do any other prayers at all.

This makes them Not Cheap At All.

Exactly. It's important not to overlook that -- a learned prayer comes with some amazing benefits, but also one huge special drawback.

Quote:

A One Prayer Cleric, who does Protection from Evil (Enhanced) all the time, has spent not only 7 points for the Prayer, but also 35 points for the Divine Favor - instead of just 33 points for the basic True Faith Reliable Turning combo.
QFT. The learned prayers are cheap, but only because you can't buy them until you've sunk a lot of points into Divine Favor. You cannot just look at the Learned Prayer Cost for each and think of that as the "real cost"! If you want to part the seas, it doesn't cost you 32 points to do so -- it costs you 202 points! Because these use the Alternative Advantage rules, this is one case where the prerequisite cost is a balancing factor.

Mailanka 01-28-2011 04:47 PM

Re: GURPS Powers: Divine Favor
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty (Post 1114154)
Glad that everyone who's picked it up has enjoyed it so much! I prayed for such a response . . . :)

One thing I must say I'm enjoying about your takes on psi and divine powers is how differently you tackle them. I've always enjoyed games where different "power sources" felt different, and I suspect you feel the same way, looking at your work. Now, one might not agree with your exact methods, but that's not really the point: You show us how it's done, and you'll certainly inspire people to go about giving their powers their own spin too.

Quote:

I thought about trying to get really expansive with it, but then decided that it was important to keep it as simple and focused as possible. IMO, a true take on "Unholy Favor" could be its own supplement. (Note to writers: Hint, hint . . .)
Like I said, hardly a quibble. If you included two kinds of gods, then you would increase the page count by something like 50%, and then those of us who prefer shamans or more Greek/D&D style gods would be clamoring for Beauty divine powers or War divine powers etc. I can certainly see the logic of picking a focus and sticking with it.

Quote:

Yeah, I know that's kind of weird leaving Heroic Feats out of the loop, but hear me out on this:

I played with a few different builds of Heroic Feats and simply could not come up with two miracles (a normal + an Enhanced) that felt like the definitive ones. For example, I considered doing a 10 point (boost one attribute) and a 30 point (boost all three), then thought about doing a 30 points (+1d to all three) and a 60-point (+2d), and then several more. In the end, I decided that the "best" combination of the two would depend on the GM.

So then it occurs to me that if I leave Heroic Feats as an obvious omission, it gives the reader/GM an easy opening to build his very first custom Learned Prayer! In other words, this is an advantage for which it is simultaneously (A) very easy to build a prayer from, yet (B) something everyone will want to take a slightly different approach to. When I realized that, I decided to consciously leave it off. So, while that may or may not have been a smart move, it was at least a willing one. :)
My first thought was actually "He doesn't like Heroic Feats. Maybe he knows something I don't." So thank you for the clarification!

demonsbane 01-28-2011 08:25 PM

Re: GURPS Powers: Divine Favor
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty (Post 1114154)
Glad that everyone who's picked it up has enjoyed it so much!

It's a very good work. When I saw that GURPS Thaumatology wasn't covering "divine magic" handled through reaction rolls, I started to wait for something like this. Because its angle, GURPS Powers: Divine Favor remembers me a bit of FUDGE Miracles . . . which is good!

A further comment, almost a quibble, is that in Divine Favor Modifiers > Reaction Roll Modifiers (p.5), in the context of situational modifiers, there's "a serious situation" portrayed with people being in a life threatening situation; this is OK, but I miss the inclusion of threats to the god's plans in the category of "serious situations", too, in which the god would be more willing to act than usual: is far from uncommon for an "interventionist deity" to have goals, plans and even some especially dear objects and places that the god wants to protect, like important relics and shrines (*). Instead, the notion of a deity with "plans" going beyond just the welfare of people is only mentioned in the glum context of the box Good and Evil, Narrow Paths and Slippery Slopes (p. 12), that is mostly about unholy paragons and dark masters.
. . .I'm aware of that this is in part a matter of assumptions, and I can come with my own ones, but still, this sort of thing is very characteristic of the type of god mainly focused in GURPS Powers: Divine Favor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mailanka (Post 1113981)
My only complaints so far is that the book focuses entirely on goody-two-shoes gods, but that's barely a quibble as the book gives me all the tools I need to make my own sets of divine powers. (. . .)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty (Post 1114154)
I thought about trying to get really expansive with it, but then decided that it was important to keep it as simple and focused as possible. (. . .)

Another comment, that is a straightforward praise, is that I'm glad to see books like this, because most things in fiction and RPGs are too strongly inclined towards the "negative numinous", as we can see in the increasingly strong fascination towards dark fantasy, maltheism and the horror genre. To my mind, the specific focus of this book is refreshing, helping a bit with "the balance of alignments" in the GURPS line, so to speak. (Yes, I know that GURPS Horror is the next hardcover after GURPS Low-Tech).


(*) For a biblical (deuterocanonical) example, answering the prayers of the high priest Onias, God actively protects the treasures of the Temple of Jerusalem -the "footstool" of his presence- smiting Heliodorus. (2 Maccabees 3:21-28)

safisher 01-29-2011 04:22 AM

Re: GURPS Powers: Divine Favor
 
This is a great product. Had been hoping for something like this after seeing the treatment in Fantasy. One question: how would you handle a prayer that creates a blessed or consecrated item, or even a permanent holy might object? Lots of potential for item creation through prayer.

dataweaver 01-29-2011 04:48 AM

Re: GURPS Powers: Divine Favor
 
I'd handle it as a General or Specific Prayer. The blessed or consecrated item would be be paid for using Thaumatology's Devotional Enchantment rules (p.54) - in particular, Creating Character Points. Indeed, I'd rule that Divine Favor would be an acceptable substitute for Very Blessed for the purposes of Meditation, Holiness, or Study (p.53) in general.

Anders 01-29-2011 07:32 AM

Re: GURPS Powers: Divine Favor
 
Would you allow for characters to buy prayers at full cost, in order to use them simultaneously with other prayers?

dataweaver 01-29-2011 09:27 AM

Re: GURPS Powers: Divine Favor
 
I don't see why not. If someone wants to dump that many points into Learned Prayers, more power to them!


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