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-   -   4 swings? (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=119252)

jtsmith1287 11-08-2013 12:28 AM

4 swings?
 
I'm struggling to understand the Extra attack and the double all out attack. The extra attack states you get two attack maneuvers so long as you have a weapon that didn't need to be readied to be used, so basically not a crossbow or unbalanced weapon or something similar. However, this starts to feel really broken when coupled with the double attack as it grants 4 swings, or am I reading this wrong?

Nereidalbel 11-08-2013 12:30 AM

Re: 4 swings?
 
If you have Extra Attacks, only one of them can be an AoA. I believe the same goes for Dual Weapon Attacks, but I could be wrong on that one.

Anders 11-08-2013 01:02 AM

Re: 4 swings?
 
You can only make one "double" attack per round.

Ulzgoroth 11-08-2013 01:30 AM

Re: 4 swings?
 
Extra Attack does not give you maneuvers, it gives you attacks. Extra Attack gives you one additional attack when you take an Attack/AoA/etc. If you take an AoA double, that means you have three attacks.

the_matrix_walker 11-08-2013 02:12 AM

Re: 4 swings?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jtsmith1287 (Post 1675397)
I'm struggling to understand the Extra attack and the double all out attack. The extra attack states you get two attack maneuvers so long as you have a weapon that didn't need to be readied to be used, so basically not a crossbow or unbalanced weapon or something similar. However, this starts to feel really broken when coupled with the double attack as it grants 4 swings, or am I reading this wrong?

Yes, "All Out Attack - Double" is misleadingly named. You never get more than one extra attack. You can get another by using Dual Weapon Attack or Rapid Strike (but not both, you can only use on DWA or Rapid strike per Maneuver).

SCAR 11-08-2013 05:26 AM

Re: 4 swings?
 
And just to make this clear with a page reference: the entry for Extra Attack - Basic: Characters, p.53-54 states:

for Extra Attack and All-Out Attack:

If he chooses All-Out Attack (Double) to increase his number of attacks, he gets one additional attack.

for Extra Attack and Rapid Strike:

You may use one of your melee attacks to make a Rapid Strike (see p. 370) on your turn, at the usual penalty. Your remaining attacks are in addition to this Rapid Strike, and receive no penalty. You may not use Rapid Strike with two or more attacks in one turn.

Also, Martial Arts, p126-127 - Multiple Attacks covers the various options pretty thoroughly.

davidtmoore 11-08-2013 05:36 AM

Re: 4 swings?
 
Where it gets silly is when you stack Altered Time Rate with Extra Attack, All-Out Attack, and Rapid Strike.

For a couple hundred points, you can get Trained by a Master, Altered Time Rate 1, and Extra Attacks 2, then take All-Out Attack (Double) twice, making 3-attack Rapid Strikes and adding two extra attacks to each maneuver, for a total of 12 attacks, half at full skill and half at -6.

mook 11-08-2013 06:02 AM

Re: 4 swings?
 
I actually dig that. For me, Altered Time Rate is an incredibly rare advantage - in fact, outside of Supers, I'm not sure when I'd ever let a PC take it. I'm fine with someone who spends that many points on a single ability attacking a bajillion times (without a defense), though.

Peter V. Dell'Orto 11-08-2013 06:04 AM

Re: 4 swings?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by davidtmoore (Post 1675496)
For a couple hundred points,

Yes, for a couple of hundred points. Should be pretty awesome for that much. ;)

A mere 12 attacks, 6 at -0 and 6 at -6, isn't a terribly nasty application of that many points. :)

DangerousThing 11-08-2013 06:31 AM

Re: 4 swings?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by davidtmoore (Post 1675496)
Where it gets silly is when you stack Altered Time Rate with Extra Attack, All-Out Attack, and Rapid Strike.

For a couple hundred points, you can get Trained by a Master, Altered Time Rate 1, and Extra Attacks 2, then take All-Out Attack (Double) twice, making 3-attack Rapid Strikes and adding two extra attacks to each maneuver, for a total of 12 attacks, half at full skill and half at -6.

As long as you're using the rules from Martial Arts. I do, but not everybody does.

Second, I do not believe that you can use Rapid Strike in the same maneuver as an AoA (double).
EDIT: I think I'm wrong about this one.

Third, that's 180 points, which means that you might not have enough points for skills or you'll have a one dimensional character. Even in my new high point game, the true martial artist only has two extra attacks and trained by a master.

But even without ATR, two extra attacks and trained by a master can lead to a devistating martial artist. A skill of 22 can use a rapid strike on one attack for three attacks at -6 and using an additional -4 for a deceptive attack, and have one attack with a deceptive attack of up to -10 (-5 to the foe's defense). Or just three normal attacks, not needing to use rapid strike.


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