Steve Jackson Games Forums

Steve Jackson Games Forums (http://forums.sjgames.com/index.php)
-   The Industry (http://forums.sjgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=37)
-   -   White Wolf is out of the game (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=161152)

seaweedbrain 12-19-2018 05:13 PM

White Wolf is out of the game
 
Looks like white wolf has had a bad year and so they are going to be closing down World of darkness.com This was sent out to subscribers of White Wolf's online book reader service. White Wolf will be folded into their parent company Paradox. Additionally, they are also looking for a brand manager

vicky_molokh 12-20-2018 02:36 AM

Re: White Wolf is out of the game
 
And I was just hoping for a rebirth of the WoD/WW in the form we knew it during the golden age thereof.

Also ironic that WW, which gained much of its street cred from writing stuff considered outrageous at the time, has also been brought down by outrage when the tables have turned.

The Colonel 12-21-2018 07:13 AM

Re: White Wolf is out of the game
 
Paradox? As in the computer strategy game people?

sjard 12-21-2018 10:32 AM

Re: White Wolf is out of the game
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Colonel (Post 2230085)
Paradox? As in the computer strategy game people?

Yeah, that would be them. I believe they bought WW from CCP (Eve Online), who bought WW in 2005ish.

Ezra 12-21-2018 11:28 AM

Re: White Wolf is out of the game
 
I'd just gotten back into playing WoD games, but their adversity and fragmentation sent me exploring and I ended up here. A friend had given me a slew of GURPS books some years back, I'd never used, so maybe now's the time to give them a whirl.

vicky_molokh 12-21-2018 02:41 PM

Re: White Wolf is out of the game
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ezra (Post 2230150)
I'd just gotten back into playing WoD games, but their adversity and fragmentation sent me exploring and I ended up here. A friend had given me a slew of GURPS books some years back, I'd never used, so maybe now's the time to give them a whirl.

By fragmentation you mean the splitting produced by the Chronicles of Darkness? What do you refer to as adversity in this context?

Ezra 12-21-2018 06:23 PM

Re: White Wolf is out of the game
 
Yes, the cognitive dissonance of there being two simultaneous versions of the game, published by both and the same companies followed by the fact that we now have a V5 that is complicated by this controversy fiasco, etc. Some people have already gotten the Camarilla and Anarch books, which are now no longer available ... it's a lot of complication for a hobby that already occupies a small niche of a niche industry.

sjard 12-22-2018 11:00 AM

Re: White Wolf is out of the game
 
This will probably complicate matters as well, but it looks like Modiphius has acquired the rights to publish Vampire: The Masquerade at the least.

rosignol 12-24-2018 09:45 AM

Re: White Wolf is out of the game
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ezra (Post 2230236)
Yes, the cognitive dissonance of there being two simultaneous versions of the game, published by both and the same companies followed by the fact that we now have a V5 that is complicated by this controversy fiasco, etc. Some people have already gotten the Camarilla and Anarch books, which are now no longer available ... it's a lot of complication for a hobby that already occupies a small niche of a niche industry.


Um... what?

Obviously, I haven't been keeping up. What is going on?

Is Paradox healthy? I'd miss Stellaris.

Gardensnake 12-24-2018 11:52 PM

Re: White Wolf is out of the game
 
I don't think White Wolf is out so much as they are regrouping. I think the biggest issue the new White Wolf has is that they are trying too hard. The original White Wolf was controversial but also smart. They presented controversial material in a way that made you think and also put stuff they new would be real controversial under a different label with a Mature Audiences warning. Even then, they were respectful in their controversy. The new White Wolf seems to be hamfistedly messing things up and when they do, they don't seem to know how to respond. I really think part of this is two fold. For starters, they're a Swedish company and I don't really think they understand the sensibilities of the common gamer or game consumer in America. Thus, they do things that they don't even think about as controversial and then are left trying to backpedal when the negative feedback hits. Their other problem I think, is they are trying to be edgy just for the sake of being edgy and are coming across as just being immature. I would really like to see White Wolf succeed and hold no ill will towards them. These are just my observations on their current condition. Hopefully they can find the right brand manager and that person can right the ship as the saying goes.

William

ericbsmith 12-25-2018 09:17 AM

Re: White Wolf is out of the game
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gardensnake (Post 2230820)
The original White Wolf was controversial but also smart.
<SNIP>
The new White Wolf seems to be hamfistedly messing things up and when they do, they don't seem to know how to respond.

Remember that we are in a whole different era now than we were 20 years ago. 20 years ago you might fire off a letter to the editor. Some people were online, but the online communities were far more fragmented and disconnected from the mainstream. Today the social networks are so large and interconnected that controversy spreads like wildfire. We also seem to be in an era where some people act as if their job is to be professionally offended; in fact, some of them are bloggers, vloggers, youtubers, etc that actually do thrive off of stirring these controversies. I do wonder how well the White Wolf of the 90's would navigate the social media of the 2010's.

Gardensnake 12-25-2018 11:31 AM

Re: White Wolf is out of the game
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ericbsmith (Post 2230874)
Remember that we are in a whole different era now than we were 20 years ago. 20 years ago you might fire off a letter to the editor. Some people were online, but the online communities were far more fragmented and disconnected from the mainstream. Today the social networks are so large and interconnected that controversy spreads like wildfire. We also seem to be in an era where some people act as if their job is to be professionally offended; in fact, some of them are bloggers, vloggers, youtubers, etc that actually do thrive off of stirring these controversies. I do wonder how well the White Wolf of the 90's would navigate the social media of the 2010's.

Excellent points Eric. I do think that old White Wolf would have had a much more difficult time had they had to dealt with the social media of today. I do think however that they still would do better than the current White Wolf is doing. I just think the current guys are trying too hard. I don't think that they're bad people, just that they lack experience doing what they do.

William

MazeMonster 01-02-2019 11:29 AM

Re: White Wolf is out of the game
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ericbsmith (Post 2230874)
Remember that we are in a whole different era now than we were 20 years ago. 20 years ago you might fire off a letter to the editor. Some people were online, but the online communities were far more fragmented and disconnected from the mainstream. Today the social networks are so large and interconnected that controversy spreads like wildfire. We also seem to be in an era where some people act as if their job is to be professionally offended; in fact, some of them are bloggers, vloggers, youtubers, etc that actually do thrive off of stirring these controversies. I do wonder how well the White Wolf of the 90's would navigate the social media of the 2010's.

Social media has given us the ingredients for a powdered lynch mob. Just add water, and you have a gang of crazies ruining it for the rest of us. Given the technology now available, I'm surprised that Bothered About Dungeons and Dragons and the PMRC haven't reconstituted.

Andrew Hackard 01-02-2019 11:31 AM

Re: White Wolf is out of the game
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MazeMonster (Post 2232862)
Social media has given us the ingredients for a powdered lynch mob. Just add water, and you have a gang of crazies ruining it for the rest of us. Given the technology now available, I'm surprised that Bothered About Dungeons and Dragons and the PMRC haven't reconstituted.

Let's please keep this on the topic of White Wolf and not spin off into an unrelated and possibly explosive discussion. Thanks.

Pmandrekar 01-10-2019 10:34 AM

Re: White Wolf is out of the game
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by seaweedbrain (Post 2229702)
Looks like white wolf has had a bad year and so they are going to be closing down World of darkness.com This was sent out to subscribers of White Wolf's online book reader service. White Wolf will be folded into their parent company Paradox. Additionally, they are also looking for a brand manager

So, that's sad. I hope that they figure this all out. I have a lot of nostalgia around White Wolf games. As a 2nd year grad student, I desperately needed a break from studying for the Prelim A exams for a PhD in Genetics. I ended up walking down the street to the FLGS and picking up a copy of GURPS Basic, and GURPS Vampire:The Masquerade (3rd Ed). I gave myself 10 minutes of just looking at all of this gamer stuff I bought before shifting back to studying. Before the end of 5, my entire grad class was assembled behind me asking if I would be running a game for them when Prelims were done.

I did. I ran a long running GURPS Vampire campaign with my grad class and their respective boy/girlfriends, including my girlfriend-- now my wife-- who was also in the same department.

Great game world to play in. Wish them the best.

SolemnGolem 06-01-2019 06:29 AM

Re: White Wolf is out of the game
 
It's a shame. White Wolf was my favorite publisher of the Ravenloft campaign setting after TSR opened up the license. Their Arthaus studio did a great job.

I'm a little surprised that Paradox has ownership of White Wolf now, although I suppose there's decent overlap between video gaming and tabletop hobby gaming.

I have tried Victoria 2 by Paradox and, frankly, I'm not smart enough to enjoy their games.

TheAmishStig 06-05-2019 12:58 PM

Re: White Wolf is out of the game
 
I don't think the games are going anywhere...betting instead that the backlash was the catalyst to finish what CCP (who owned it before Paradox) started ages ago: spinning W-W down into a holding company. I wouldn't surprise if it also means they're letting Onyx Path take over the development, rather than just doing the publishing.

Speaking of...OPP is doing well for themselves, nothing to be afraid of there. They've carved a rather solid niche for themselves, using Kickstarter for Collectors' Editions and then taking the 'standard edition' stuff print-on-demand exclusive.

Anthony 06-05-2019 04:11 PM

Re: White Wolf is out of the game
 
The original reason CCP acquired WW is because they were going to make a Vampire MMO. That project eventually failed, at which point it got sold to Paradox, who I assume were also interested in the computer game rights, not the RPG rights. I suspect that shutting down WW is a sign that they aren't terribly interested in the RPG rights, but likely they'd be perfectly happy to let a third party handle the RPG rights as long as they get their cut.

TheAmishStig 06-06-2019 09:36 AM

Re: White Wolf is out of the game
 
Yup.

I originally had a huge dissertation of a thing in there about the history, but couldn't find solid info about who developed what and who took over developing what at various points so ended up dropping it.

Now that you mention it, I wouldn't be surprised if part of the sale negotiations between CCP and Paradox was "No, if you want the video game you take the whole subsidiary"...and I wouldn't be surprised if spinning it down after the scandal was a value proposition thing. Cleaning up the PR mess by shutting down the in-house dev team and turning W-W into a holding company possibly took less time, effort, and maybe even layoffs than other options.

It's an "out with a whimper" for a company that used to own something like 25-30% of the RPG market, but ultimately I'm not afraid for the games themselves. Onyx Path will take good care of them, and I'm sure if Paradox ever wants to pull the plug entirely Rich will make them an offer.

ColBosch 06-12-2019 08:55 AM

Re: White Wolf is out of the game
 
I'm 100% positive that everyone wanted to keep the entire IP in one package, rather than split the computer and tabletop rights. Look at what happened to BattleTech, for example.

TheAmishStig 06-12-2019 02:18 PM

Re: White Wolf is out of the game
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ColBosch (Post 2268450)
Look at what happened to BattleTech, for example.

Now there's an abyss that stares back. If they ever do a Munchkin Mecha [I'm genuinely surprised they've not done a version that's a love letter to all things Big Stompy Robot], 'Navigate fragmented IP ownership' should be some sort of Curse! card.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:34 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.