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-   -   Resolved,There is no point to statting up anything that is not a PC (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=65582)

jeff_wilson 12-30-2009 03:54 AM

Resolved,There is no point to statting up anything that is not a PC
 
"There is no point to statting up anything that is not a PC" - I'm seeing this opinion (with which I do not agree) expressed more frequently than previous here, and I would like to see if users can post informed reasons for having it when there are several rules like the long-established Allies and Enemies that require the opposite behavior.

Hai-Etlik 12-30-2009 04:40 AM

Re: Resolved,There is no point to statting up anything that is not a PC
 
I think it could be more precisely expressed as "Don't produce stats any more detailed than you have to for a given situation."

A really basic combat mook might be nothing more than: HP 11, Move: 5 Broadsword-12 doing 1d+1 cut, Dodge 7, Parry 9.

A merchant might just be: Merchant-13

They don't need full stats, and they certainly don't need point costs.

Likewise, if you have a magical plot device that isn't specific to a PC, you don't need to come up with stats for it, it could even be something you can't express using the rules. It can just work.

An Ally obviously does need to be worked out to get a point cost but that's a different situation. Other NPCs will fall in between.

NineDaysDead 12-30-2009 04:46 AM

Re: Resolved,There is no point to statting up anything that is not a PC
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson (Post 905537)
"There is no point to statting up anything that is not a PC" - I'm seeing this opinion (with which I do not agree) expressed more frequently than previous here, and I would like to see if users can post informed reasons for having it when there are several rules like the long-established Allies and Enemies that require the opposite behavior.

I'd go with "There is no point to giving detailed stats to anything that PC's can't get their hands on"; if a player has Neutralize with Power theft, or Morph with Unlimited Forms or other things of this nature, then you're going to need to do a lot of statting up, otherwise probably not so much. The reason for having this opinion is simple: It's to reduce the GM's workload!

Johnny Angel 12-30-2009 04:57 AM

Re: Resolved,There is no point to statting up anything that is not a PC
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hai-Etlik (Post 905548)
I think it could be more precisely expressed as "Don't produce stats any more detailed than you have to for a given situation."

A really basic combat mook might be nothing more than: HP 11, Move: 5 Broadsword-12 doing 1d+1 cut, Dodge 7, Parry 9.

A merchant might just be: Merchant-13

They don't need full stats, and they certainly don't need point costs.

Likewise, if you have a magical plot device that isn't specific to a PC, you don't need to come up with stats for it, it could even be something you can't express using the rules. It can just work.

An Ally obviously does need to be worked out to get a point cost but that's a different situation. Other NPCs will fall in between.


Basically, I feel the same way...

If I don't need a full stat block for a low level mook or a junk car which the pcs stumble across, I typically just jot down a few notes containing the information I need to have to be able to use that in game. If later on I need more concrete rules for how exactly the things work (or the players need to know) I expand my rough notes into more crunchy GURPS terms.

That being said, there's nothing wrong with doing more work if you want to do so. If you feel that having something more firmly defined is important, by all means, do so.

I like to world build, so, in that regard, I'm sure I stat out all sorts of things which will probably never actually come up in a lot of my games.

zorg 12-30-2009 05:00 AM

Re: Resolved,There is no point to statting up anything that is not a PC
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hai-Etlik (Post 905548)
I think it could be more precisely expressed as "Don't produce stats any more detailed than you have to for a given situation."

That. A common mistake by many new to Gurps is that since the system can stat up everything up to and including your fridge, you actually should do that. This leads to lots of GM frustration, when people try to come up with appropriate limitation values for complex abilities.

Of course, any creature which will come up as an Ally or Enemy at character creation, or abilities which can be bought at character creation, potentially need a CP value. Some one-off demonic monster, which will be dispatched and forgotten by the next session, doesn't need a CP value.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Angel (Post 905553)
That being said, there's nothing wrong with doing more work if you want to do so. If you feel that having something more firmly defined is important, by all means, do so.

Certainly. Statting up stuff is a fun exercise in itself. It just doesn't have too much impact on the game :)

Celjabba 12-30-2009 05:07 AM

Re: Resolved,There is no point to statting up anything that is not a PC
 
I am the first willing and wanting to attempt to stat up anything and everything just for fun or for a better understanding of the rules.

But, when someone on the forums who is not an gurps-maniacs ask:
"How can i stat that very complex power from ***** anime/movie/book, for an NPC"
I believe the answer "don't stat it, just write down what it do"
is the correct one.

If you are playing a Watchmen campaign, knowing the exact point cost and write-up of Dr. Manhattan is probably irrelevant.
Even for allies and ennemies, i have, in my own games, eyeballed a point cost and not bothered with a full stating.
Unless i want to, for personnal satisfaction, that is.

I have strong opinionated memories of ICE Lord of Middle Earth books, when you learned that the God of earth could move 87654 cubic feet of earth/hour, expanding 32 mana for each 1 lbs moved ... Knowing that he have 12345 mana and 11 spells list to level 50, 13 spells list to lvl 30 and 17 spells list to lvl 10.
(yes, i am using fictional number here. but the exact number were in the book, meticulously calculated).
Those information were, and still are, useless for a gaming purpose.

Likewise, the full, exact write-up of a NPC power that the pc will never be able to acquire, or the full template of a toaster that no pc can digitally posess, is in my opinion,
useless for gameplay purpose.
It is interesting on a theorical level, it is interesting for mastering the rules, but for the actual gameplay, it doesnt add anything.

Also, writing up racial template for shapeshifter, cybershells, ... is a necessity.
And a good write-up for an ally is always good to have.
But if knowledge of a write-up and point cost is unnecessary in game, it is my opinion that this full write up is something that you may do, not have to do.

So, i ould not say that there is no point, just no necessity in many case.

In my opinion.

celjabba

pyratejohn 12-30-2009 05:39 AM

Re: Resolved,There is no point to statting up anything that is not a PC
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hai-Etlik (Post 905548)
I think it could be more precisely expressed as "Don't produce stats any more detailed than you have to for a given situation."

That's my take on it too. If I had time to stat up everything, I might be inclined to do so, but I don't. Also... by not stating everything, I feel like I have a bit more flexibility. I'm more inclined to wing it and be creative on the fly if I don't have full stats on something, and winging it in response to player action/reaction is a good thing in my book.

zorg 12-30-2009 05:40 AM

Re: Resolved,There is no point to statting up anything that is not a PC
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Celjabba (Post 905556)
I have strong opinionated memories of ICE Lord of Middle Earth books, when you learned that the God of earth could move 87654 cubic feet of earth/hour, expanding 32 mana for each 1 lbs moved ...

iirc, Sauron was pretty good at skiing, but bad at dancing.

Philomath 12-30-2009 06:05 AM

Re: Resolved,There is no point to statting up anything that is not a PC
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hai-Etlik (Post 905548)
I think it could be more precisely expressed as "Don't produce stats any more detailed than you have to for a given situation."

I tend to work this way but not by preference. I just don't have the time to work on both the background and the crunch in the detail I used to. One of them has to give. Since I'm much better at improvising rules and stats I spend less prep time on them. I still think it a good idea to stat everything. That's just not realistic though.

Luke Bunyip 12-30-2009 06:44 AM

Re: Resolved,There is no point to statting up anything that is not a PC
 
For a walk in/walk out NPC, nup. I am more interested in their character motivation, and the way they will interact with the PC's. Might give them a nominal IQ and possibly Will.

For a combat, I will generate a NPC using the Character Assistant software. Mooks, lead NPC's and Big Bads. Only seems fair on my players, to be honest with them in regards to what they are going up against.

Fridge stats: LOL.


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